4 ms·

This is the first tweet I've seen with this feature enabled, and frankly I'm floored. In what way is this tweet misleading? Are there any facts in it that are

This is the first tweet I've seen with this feature enabled, and frankly I'm floored. In what way is this tweet misleading? Are there any facts in it that are false? Twitter links this tweet to a page saying "COVID-19 vaccines are extremely effective at preventing serious illness and death, trials show" however the parent tweet doesn't dispute or contradict that statement at all. We're through the looking glass here...

deathanatos 5y ago
I would say its the implication that the virus is ineffective at preventing transmission: > this one mRNA shot […] that doesn’t stop transmission This phrasing implies can be easily misconstrued to that it's completely ineffective in preventing transmission… and it's not. The tweet is … off … here, > I can go unvaccinated against polio AIUI, one can go unvaccinated against polio because the vaccine against polio was so effective it is one step shy of being eradicated. The cognitive dissonance of refusing a COVID-19 vaccine on that argument is astounding to me… > I can go unvaccinated against […] tetanus, hepatitis, measles and mumps Presumably it depends on jurisdiction, but I was required to get those vaccines in order to attend school. Now, while I (personally) think the tweet is bad, Twitter's moderation is not the greatest here, and I would agree that banning comments is too heavy handed. If nobody can correct the poster, with nuanced debate that addresses their points specifically, how would they ever change their view? Simultaneously, I think people running discussion sites need the ability to moderate, and that moderation will be at times wrong. But users, simultaneously, need reasonable choice when it comes to services like this, so that if they disagree with the company/org's choices, they have a meaningful way to choose a different provider.
- lamontcg 5y ago
  and when it comes to transmission: No, Vaccinated People Are Not ‘Just as Likely’ to Spread the Coronavirus as Unvaccinated People https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/09/the-vaccinated-arent-just-as-likely-to-spread-covid/620161/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/09/the-vaccin... The impact of SARS-CoV-2 vaccination on Alpha & Delta variant transmission https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.09.28.21264260v1 https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.09.28.21264260v...
mcguire 5y ago
The case fatality ratio is actually around 1.6% (https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality) or about 8 times greater.
- throwawaysea 5y ago
  The CFR is more biased and expected to be higher because it measures fatality based on observed cases rather than the total population of infections. The IFR for COVID-19 is commonly estimated to be below 1%, and closer to 0.6%. I haven’t seen a measure as low as 0.2% for the whole population, but the IFR for those under 50 is really low, so if you exclude seniors (above 65) it is a reasonable estimate.
eganist 5y ago
The tweet... and my breakdown. > I can go unvaccinated against polio, tetanus, hepatitis, measles and mumps, Misleading: 90.8% of infants aged 24 months are vaccinated against e.g measles, mumps, and rubella, so a mandate generally isn't required because herd immunity has already been reached. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/measles.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/measles.htm > but if I refuse this one mRNA shot for a virus with a 0.2% IFR Most recent research lands it anywhere from 0.37% to 0.90% based on various factors specific per country. (Preprint) https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.05.12.21256975v3.full https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.05.12.21256975v... > that doesn’t stop transmission But it does slow it by reducing breakthrough infections and reducing the window of transmission. https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/07/29/world/covid-delta-variant-vaccine https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/07/29/world/covid-delta-va... > and requires boosters every few months, Booster isn't required, effectiveness is still 85+% for the mRNA vaccines, even against delta. https://www.healthline.com/health-news/heres-how-well-covid-19-vaccines-work-against-the-delta-variant https://www.healthline.com/health-news/heres-how-well-covid-... > I can’t go to public spaces Public spaces aren't barricaded to unvaccinated people anywhere in the US currently, and given that people have failed to contribute to minimizing transmission, it's unlikely we'll have those kinds of lockdowns in the future. Spaces owned by private institutions or organizations may be, but most are asking for masks in line with CDC Delta guidelines. > and may lose my job? May indeed, depending on various conditions including the desires of the employer. The OSHA regulation is the only one that might be questionable, but OSHA also regulates events with lower fatality rates than covid, so this may well be in scope for them too. --- It's pretty misleading. It made sense that Twitter flagged it.

deathanatos 5y ago

I would say its the implication that the virus is ineffective at preventing transmission: > this one mRNA shot […] that doesn’t stop transmission This phrasing implies can be easily misconstrued to that it's completely ineffective in preventing transmission… and it's not. The tweet is … off … here, > I can go unvaccinated against polio AIUI, one can go unvaccinated against polio because the vaccine against polio was so effective it is one step shy of being eradicated. The cognitive dissonance of refusing a COVID-19 vaccine on that argument is astounding to me… > I can go unvaccinated against […] tetanus, hepatitis, measles and mumps Presumably it depends on jurisdiction, but I was required to get those vaccines in order to attend school. Now, while I (personally) think the tweet is bad, Twitter's moderation is not the greatest here, and I would agree that banning comments is too heavy handed. If nobody can correct the poster, with nuanced debate that addresses their points specifically, how would they ever change their view? Simultaneously, I think people running discussion sites need the ability to moderate, and that moderation will be at times wrong. But users, simultaneously, need reasonable choice when it comes to services like this, so that if they disagree with the company/org's choices, they have a meaningful way to choose a different provider.

lamontcg 5y ago
and when it comes to transmission: No, Vaccinated People Are Not ‘Just as Likely’ to Spread the Coronavirus as Unvaccinated People https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/09/the-vaccinated-arent-just-as-likely-to-spread-covid/620161/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/09/the-vaccin... The impact of SARS-CoV-2 vaccination on Alpha & Delta variant transmission https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.09.28.21264260v1 https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.09.28.21264260v...

mcguire 5y ago

The case fatality ratio is actually around 1.6% (https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality) or about 8 times greater.

throwawaysea 5y ago
The CFR is more biased and expected to be higher because it measures fatality based on observed cases rather than the total population of infections. The IFR for COVID-19 is commonly estimated to be below 1%, and closer to 0.6%. I haven’t seen a measure as low as 0.2% for the whole population, but the IFR for those under 50 is really low, so if you exclude seniors (above 65) it is a reasonable estimate.

eganist 5y ago

The tweet... and my breakdown. > I can go unvaccinated against polio, tetanus, hepatitis, measles and mumps, Misleading: 90.8% of infants aged 24 months are vaccinated against e.g measles, mumps, and rubella, so a mandate generally isn't required because herd immunity has already been reached. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/measles.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/measles.htm > but if I refuse this one mRNA shot for a virus with a 0.2% IFR Most recent research lands it anywhere from 0.37% to 0.90% based on various factors specific per country. (Preprint) https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.05.12.21256975v3.full https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.05.12.21256975v... > that doesn’t stop transmission But it does slow it by reducing breakthrough infections and reducing the window of transmission. https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/07/29/world/covid-delta-variant-vaccine https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/07/29/world/covid-delta-va... > and requires boosters every few months, Booster isn't required, effectiveness is still 85+% for the mRNA vaccines, even against delta. https://www.healthline.com/health-news/heres-how-well-covid-19-vaccines-work-against-the-delta-variant https://www.healthline.com/health-news/heres-how-well-covid-... > I can’t go to public spaces Public spaces aren't barricaded to unvaccinated people anywhere in the US currently, and given that people have failed to contribute to minimizing transmission, it's unlikely we'll have those kinds of lockdowns in the future. Spaces owned by private institutions or organizations may be, but most are asking for masks in line with CDC Delta guidelines. > and may lose my job? May indeed, depending on various conditions including the desires of the employer. The OSHA regulation is the only one that might be questionable, but OSHA also regulates events with lower fatality rates than covid, so this may well be in scope for them too. --- It's pretty misleading. It made sense that Twitter flagged it.