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52% of Trump Voters, 41% of Biden Voters Now Favor Seceding from the Union

10 points by hncurious 5y ago

eigengrau5150 5y ago
Thomas Paine once asked in Common Sense why an island should be allowed to rule a continent. Maybe it's time to ask why a mere city should be permitted to govern a continent. I'm fine with red state secession as long as blue states maintain porous borders so I can vote with my feet — and as long as red states don't get a single dollar in foreign aid from what remains of the US. If the neo-Confederates think they can manage on their own, I'd love to see them try, because blue states have been the Germany to the red states' Greece for years. https://apnews.com/article/north-america-business-local-taxes-ap-top-news-politics-2f83c72de1bd440d92cdbc0d3b6bc08c https://apnews.com/article/north-america-business-local-taxe... Hell, we should have let the South secede in 1861 and then encouraged slaves to run away by granting automatic citizenship and equality with whites if they made it across the border — but Abraham Lincoln was hellbent on preserving the Union by any means necessary.
- proc0 5y ago
  I think many people will be surprised how it would split. Many think it looks like at the time of the civil war back then, as if nothing else has changed. People would reallocate en-masse, way more than has already happened. Blue states will not look the same after that. My point is just that too many people live in a virtual reality that is built on a narrow view of history. At the moment, I think immigration has been the biggest issue by far. When blue states condone it so much, I think the influx of new people amounts to wanting to change the demographics to an extent that looks like leaving the Union. So in my opinion, it is blue states that are in the position that the South was at the time of Lincoln. The Union doesn't include hundreds of thousands of immigrants from all over the world, and in fact that looks more like some other type of imports of peoples that happened back then (that shall not be named).
  - netizen-936824 5y ago
    That seems a bit of a stretch, honestly Are we not a nation of immigrants from the start?
    - salawat 5y ago
      Have you seen the hoops people with work visas have to jump through just to be able to cross state lines? It's... really not as much of a stretch as you may think.
    - proc0 5y ago
      I don't think we are, and my parents were immigrants. I say that because other countries just kick people out whenever they want. Other countries safeguard their identities. The U.S. used to have that, which is why my parents had to go through a process in order to acquire their legal status, but now people are advocating for literally anyone arriving here and not bothering with that process, and then we have tens of thousands of foreigners that probably will never acquire this American identity, and perhaps that's what some people want. The identity is the nation, when you break that down, you break down the nation, and that's precisely what we're seeing played out.
tuatoru 5y ago
Yeah, Brexit is working so well.
genjipress 5y ago
Well, the ones they polled anyway. Who knows what the methodology of this was like.
LinuxBender 5y ago
I would be more curious to hear what historians think of this. When nations get heavily divided into tribes do governments intentionally do irrational things to distract or unite people such as walking face first into major wars or other related societal changing events? Any historians here?

10 points by hncurious 5y ago

Thomas Paine once asked in Common Sense why an island should be allowed to rule a continent. Maybe it's time to ask why a mere city should be permitted to govern a continent. I'm fine with red state secession as long as blue states maintain porous borders so I can vote with my feet — and as long as red states don't get a single dollar in foreign aid from what remains of the US. If the neo-Confederates think they can manage on their own, I'd love to see them try, because blue states have been the Germany to the red states' Greece for years. https://apnews.com/article/north-america-business-local-taxes-ap-top-news-politics-2f83c72de1bd440d92cdbc0d3b6bc08c https://apnews.com/article/north-america-business-local-taxe... Hell, we should have let the South secede in 1861 and then encouraged slaves to run away by granting automatic citizenship and equality with whites if they made it across the border — but Abraham Lincoln was hellbent on preserving the Union by any means necessary.

proc0 5y ago
I think many people will be surprised how it would split. Many think it looks like at the time of the civil war back then, as if nothing else has changed. People would reallocate en-masse, way more than has already happened. Blue states will not look the same after that. My point is just that too many people live in a virtual reality that is built on a narrow view of history. At the moment, I think immigration has been the biggest issue by far. When blue states condone it so much, I think the influx of new people amounts to wanting to change the demographics to an extent that looks like leaving the Union. So in my opinion, it is blue states that are in the position that the South was at the time of Lincoln. The Union doesn't include hundreds of thousands of immigrants from all over the world, and in fact that looks more like some other type of imports of peoples that happened back then (that shall not be named).
- netizen-936824 5y ago
  That seems a bit of a stretch, honestly Are we not a nation of immigrants from the start?
  - salawat 5y ago
    Have you seen the hoops people with work visas have to jump through just to be able to cross state lines? It's... really not as much of a stretch as you may think.
  - proc0 5y ago
    I don't think we are, and my parents were immigrants. I say that because other countries just kick people out whenever they want. Other countries safeguard their identities. The U.S. used to have that, which is why my parents had to go through a process in order to acquire their legal status, but now people are advocating for literally anyone arriving here and not bothering with that process, and then we have tens of thousands of foreigners that probably will never acquire this American identity, and perhaps that's what some people want. The identity is the nation, when you break that down, you break down the nation, and that's precisely what we're seeing played out.

tuatoru 5y ago

Yeah, Brexit is working so well.

genjipress 5y ago

Well, the ones they polled anyway. Who knows what the methodology of this was like.

LinuxBender 5y ago

I would be more curious to hear what historians think of this. When nations get heavily divided into tribes do governments intentionally do irrational things to distract or unite people such as walking face first into major wars or other related societal changing events? Any historians here?