3 ms·

My guess is if you want to compete with roblox, you make a good independent multiplayer game that has a world aspect, get popular and then start adding user edi

by novok 5y ago

My guess is if you want to compete with roblox, you make a good independent multiplayer game that has a world aspect, get popular and then start adding user editing, vs starting with user editing first. Basically minecraft with a first class modding engine as a second expansion that kids can use eventually. The first and most important part is a game that people want to play.

TeMPOraL 5y ago
It's kind of like with "edutainment" - authors try to make education more palatable to kids by sprinkling some game aspects in, as if it made more sense than sprinkling a bit of sugar on top of broccoli to get a kid coerced to eat it to like it. You need to start with a game that's fun, in a context that's fun (i.e. not coerced by outside authority), and only then you can sneak in some extra value.
- saulpw 5y ago
  That may be how you make kids enjoy learning, but edutainment doesn't sell based on fun. It sells based on curriculum. You need to target a specific known study path and be maximally efficient in presenting those concepts and offering a way to grade performance that translates to standardized tests. Anything else is DOA because neither parents nor teachers nor kids will buy it.
  - TeMPOraL 5y ago
    I.e. the educational equivalent of developing to a checklist of features the customer wants, with the customer being a corporate manager that doesn't use the software themselves. We all know how this works: this is how you get garbage software everyone hates but still has to use. > You need to target a specific known study path and be maximally efficient in presenting those concepts and offering a way to grade performance that translates to standardized tests. Yeah, this is exactly what I meant. You do that, it's no longer a game, and kids will hate it. Those concepts are also all related to fitting your product in the education pipeline, which is distinct and mostly opposite to actually teaching things. > Anything else is DOA because neither parents nor teachers nor kids will buy it. Well, of course. Parents and teachers won't buy it because it won't fit the education pipeline, and kids won't want it because it's still labeled as intended for education pipeline. To get to kids, you want something that's an actual videogame first, learning second. As a random example, try Kerbal Space Program - it's absolutely a game first, but it's easier and more fun to play the more you understand the math and engineering of space travel, which is how you end up with 12 years olds learning basics of orbital physics on their own, equations included. Because there suddenly is a point to it. (And I want to reinforce the point about coercion. The simplest way to kill any such product is to get a school to make its use obligatory in a classroom setting. It's the same way as school reading lists kill people's desire to read books in general, and to read specific quality literature in particular.)
63 5y ago
I'm interested to see where Hytale goes since this seems to be their approach, roughly and with pre existing community support to boot. Unfortunately they've been pretty unresponsive since their acquisition so I hope the eventual release keeps same spirit they started with.

by novok 5y ago

TeMPOraL 5y ago

It's kind of like with "edutainment" - authors try to make education more palatable to kids by sprinkling some game aspects in, as if it made more sense than sprinkling a bit of sugar on top of broccoli to get a kid coerced to eat it to like it. You need to start with a game that's fun, in a context that's fun (i.e. not coerced by outside authority), and only then you can sneak in some extra value.

saulpw 5y ago
That may be how you make kids enjoy learning, but edutainment doesn't sell based on fun. It sells based on curriculum. You need to target a specific known study path and be maximally efficient in presenting those concepts and offering a way to grade performance that translates to standardized tests. Anything else is DOA because neither parents nor teachers nor kids will buy it.
- TeMPOraL 5y ago
  I.e. the educational equivalent of developing to a checklist of features the customer wants, with the customer being a corporate manager that doesn't use the software themselves. We all know how this works: this is how you get garbage software everyone hates but still has to use. > You need to target a specific known study path and be maximally efficient in presenting those concepts and offering a way to grade performance that translates to standardized tests. Yeah, this is exactly what I meant. You do that, it's no longer a game, and kids will hate it. Those concepts are also all related to fitting your product in the education pipeline, which is distinct and mostly opposite to actually teaching things. > Anything else is DOA because neither parents nor teachers nor kids will buy it. Well, of course. Parents and teachers won't buy it because it won't fit the education pipeline, and kids won't want it because it's still labeled as intended for education pipeline. To get to kids, you want something that's an actual videogame first, learning second. As a random example, try Kerbal Space Program - it's absolutely a game first, but it's easier and more fun to play the more you understand the math and engineering of space travel, which is how you end up with 12 years olds learning basics of orbital physics on their own, equations included. Because there suddenly is a point to it. (And I want to reinforce the point about coercion. The simplest way to kill any such product is to get a school to make its use obligatory in a classroom setting. It's the same way as school reading lists kill people's desire to read books in general, and to read specific quality literature in particular.)

63 5y ago

I'm interested to see where Hytale goes since this seems to be their approach, roughly and with pre existing community support to boot. Unfortunately they've been pretty unresponsive since their acquisition so I hope the eventual release keeps same spirit they started with.