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What are normal ICU levels and is this a goalpost that can ever be achieved? Long before Covid, it was well-known that hospital ICUs were designed to run fairl

What are normal ICU levels and is this a goalpost that can ever be achieved? Long before Covid, it was well-known that hospital ICUs were designed to run fairly close to 100% capacity because it wasn't profitable to pay for staff that weren't truly needed at any given time. Is there any hospital that is going to pay for far more staff than they need and somehow manufacture many ICU beds out of nowhere? I feel like this is a goalpost intentionally designed to never be achievable. As further evidence, if the situation was actually so dire, would unvaccinated people (many of whom already had Covid) be on the chopping block in so many locations?

easytiger 5y ago
Not to mention standardised admission criteria and ICU eligibility criteria were chucked out the window in many countries when covid became a thing Edit downvotes and no discussion. This place is getting worse
crooked-v 5y ago
> and is this a goalpost that can ever be achieved? It could absolutely be achieved. Literally the only thing keeping things from going back to more-or-less normal conditions right now is that there are many unvaccinated people getting extremely ill from COVID and filling up ICUs.
- logicalmonster 5y ago
  Again, what are normal ICU levels? As far as I'm aware, ICU staffing is modified to achieve close to 100% capacity at all times with minimal spare beds, whether pre-Covid or post-Covid. If this is the case, then there's no scenario possible, regardless of what happens with Covid, where hospitals report anything but "few ICU beds are available".
  - PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
    The data collected in the US by the Department of Health has routinely shown ICU availability in my county (Santa Fe, NM). That data has generally indicated that roughly half the available ICU beds are filled, with 1 or 2 patients there due to COVID. p.s. according to our local newspaper, this data is incorrect.
  - crooked-v 5y ago
    Normal ICU levels are levels lower than "every available nurse and doctor is busy with ICU patients". It's really not that complicated. Under normal conditions capacity can usually scale to meet the needs of the local community. Under COVID conditions, all theoretical capacity is already taken by COVID patients.
    - logicalmonster 5y ago
      Yet, healthcare systems are currently rushing to axe many thousands of unvaccinated healthcare workers. Don’t you think it sends mixed messages to be claiming that there’s such a dire shortage of ICU capacity on one hand, but to be letting so many fully capable healthcare workers go? (many of whom have already been exposed to Covid and have natural immunity anyway)

easytiger 5y ago

Not to mention standardised admission criteria and ICU eligibility criteria were chucked out the window in many countries when covid became a thing Edit downvotes and no discussion. This place is getting worse

crooked-v 5y ago

> and is this a goalpost that can ever be achieved? It could absolutely be achieved. Literally the only thing keeping things from going back to more-or-less normal conditions right now is that there are many unvaccinated people getting extremely ill from COVID and filling up ICUs.

logicalmonster 5y ago
Again, what are normal ICU levels? As far as I'm aware, ICU staffing is modified to achieve close to 100% capacity at all times with minimal spare beds, whether pre-Covid or post-Covid. If this is the case, then there's no scenario possible, regardless of what happens with Covid, where hospitals report anything but "few ICU beds are available".
- PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
  The data collected in the US by the Department of Health has routinely shown ICU availability in my county (Santa Fe, NM). That data has generally indicated that roughly half the available ICU beds are filled, with 1 or 2 patients there due to COVID. p.s. according to our local newspaper, this data is incorrect.
- crooked-v 5y ago
  Normal ICU levels are levels lower than "every available nurse and doctor is busy with ICU patients". It's really not that complicated. Under normal conditions capacity can usually scale to meet the needs of the local community. Under COVID conditions, all theoretical capacity is already taken by COVID patients.
  - logicalmonster 5y ago
    Yet, healthcare systems are currently rushing to axe many thousands of unvaccinated healthcare workers. Don’t you think it sends mixed messages to be claiming that there’s such a dire shortage of ICU capacity on one hand, but to be letting so many fully capable healthcare workers go? (many of whom have already been exposed to Covid and have natural immunity anyway)