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The vaccine maximalists ridicule "horse paste" because many people are literally buying and ingesting products intended for livestock.

micromacrofoot 5y ago
yeah I hate this line of discussion because it tries to form some sense of "both sides" equivalency... and I think there's a big difference between supporting vaccine mandates and literally taking horse medicine.
barbinbrad 5y ago
In his Nobel-prize lecture, the Merck scientist William Campbell, talks about how Ivermectin was always intended to be used in humans. Two relevant quotes from his speech are, "I had always insisted that our written departmental objectives would include the development of new drugs for control of parasites in humans" and "The end of ivermectin is nowhere in sight." Check it out: https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/medicine/2015/campbell/lecture/ https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/medicine/2015/campbell/lec...
- crooked-v 5y ago
  I'm not talking about ivermectin itself. I'm talking about how people are literally going to livestock supply stores, buying products that contain ivermectin but come in forms and dosages intended for livestock, and ingesting those (even when intended for topical usage), based entirely on internet advice and without any kind of doctor oversight. That's where "horse paste" mockery comes from.
  - hunterb123 5y ago
    Maybe they couldn't get a doctor to prescribe them the human pill because of all the politicization so they took the "horse paste" version. You seem to have first hand knowledge of all these people's situations, are you following people to the livestock supply stores or talking out of your ass from stories you read on Reddit? Most people that I know have that have took Ivermectin were taking the human pill. Only on the internet and news media have I seen people talking about horse paste. Also, some vet meds are okay for humans (as long as you dose correctly), yeah you shouldn't take them, but that doesn't stop some of my liberal friends I know from taking horse tranqs (ketamine).
    - SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
      The only reason that they want an ineffective pill that doctors rightly won't prescribe, but not a safe and effective vaccine, is as you say, "politicization". It's still a bad idea, on multiple levels: taking Ivermectin for COVID in the first place, taking the horse paste version, self-administering, and guessing the dose.
      - gfodor 5y ago
        No, your first sentence shows you're lacking an understanding. They genuinely fear the vaccine and believe Ivermectin works. If it was exclusively about politics they'd embrace the vaccine since both Trump and Biden are pro-vaccine. Taking Ivermectin for COVID from a doctor as an objectively "bad idea" is ridiculous, because it has been widely prescribed around the world for COVID. At best, it is a "marginally pointless idea."
    - crooked-v 5y ago
      It's been well-documented in the news, including people being hospitalized after overdosing on the stuff: https://www.mississippifreepress.org/15002/person-hospitalized-after-taking-livestock-ivermectin-from-feed-store-to-treat-covid-19/ https://www.mississippifreepress.org/15002/person-hospitaliz... https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2021/08/25/ivermectin-livestock-deworming-drug-poison-control/5583817001/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2021/08/25/iverme... https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/why-you-should-not-use-ivermectin-treat-or-prevent-covid-19 https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/why-you-shoul...
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
      - gfodor 5y ago
        Since you cited the hilarious poison control story, you might enjoy this analysis: https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/too-good-to-check-a-play-in-three https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/too-good-to-check-a-pl...
      - 5y ago
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
  Ivermectin is useful for control of parasites in humans (1) and other animals such as horses, but the grandparent is also correct, people are "literally buying and ingesting products intended for livestock" - from the veterinary aisle (2), and self-administering random doses not safe for humans, with bad consequences (3). It's sheer lunacy to do that. If it was effective for COVID-19 (a virus, not parasite), then medical staff would be administering correct doses. 1) https://www.who.int/tdr/news/2018/moxidectin-approved-as-treatment-for-river-blindness/en/ https://www.who.int/tdr/news/2018/moxidectin-approved-as-tre... 2) https://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/store-only-lets-you-buy-ivermectin-if-you-show-a-picture-with-your-horse/ https://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/store-only-le... 3) https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/09/04/1034217306/ivermectin-overdose-exposure-cases-poison-control-centers https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/0...
  - hunterb123 5y ago
    Ivermectin is not just for control of parasites, the anti-viral properties it has is because it's a protease inhibitor. It prevents certain viruses from binding to cells. How effective it is at inhibiting binding is the question. This pill in the article and Pfizer's prophylactic are most likely more effective since it's not a by product but the intent. Also more profitable because of patents.
gfodor 5y ago
Nah, not many are, it's being prescribed by doctors on the hope that maybe it kinda sorta works. (It probably doesn't.) It's a safe and widely used drug so on net it isn't a terrible idea if you have an extremely high risk person. Though my understanding is the evidence in favor has gotten weaker over time.

micromacrofoot 5y ago

yeah I hate this line of discussion because it tries to form some sense of "both sides" equivalency... and I think there's a big difference between supporting vaccine mandates and literally taking horse medicine.

barbinbrad 5y ago

In his Nobel-prize lecture, the Merck scientist William Campbell, talks about how Ivermectin was always intended to be used in humans. Two relevant quotes from his speech are, "I had always insisted that our written departmental objectives would include the development of new drugs for control of parasites in humans" and "The end of ivermectin is nowhere in sight." Check it out: https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/medicine/2015/campbell/lecture/ https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/medicine/2015/campbell/lec...

crooked-v 5y ago
I'm not talking about ivermectin itself. I'm talking about how people are literally going to livestock supply stores, buying products that contain ivermectin but come in forms and dosages intended for livestock, and ingesting those (even when intended for topical usage), based entirely on internet advice and without any kind of doctor oversight. That's where "horse paste" mockery comes from.
- hunterb123 5y ago
  Maybe they couldn't get a doctor to prescribe them the human pill because of all the politicization so they took the "horse paste" version. You seem to have first hand knowledge of all these people's situations, are you following people to the livestock supply stores or talking out of your ass from stories you read on Reddit? Most people that I know have that have took Ivermectin were taking the human pill. Only on the internet and news media have I seen people talking about horse paste. Also, some vet meds are okay for humans (as long as you dose correctly), yeah you shouldn't take them, but that doesn't stop some of my liberal friends I know from taking horse tranqs (ketamine).
  - SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
    The only reason that they want an ineffective pill that doctors rightly won't prescribe, but not a safe and effective vaccine, is as you say, "politicization". It's still a bad idea, on multiple levels: taking Ivermectin for COVID in the first place, taking the horse paste version, self-administering, and guessing the dose.
    - gfodor 5y ago
      No, your first sentence shows you're lacking an understanding. They genuinely fear the vaccine and believe Ivermectin works. If it was exclusively about politics they'd embrace the vaccine since both Trump and Biden are pro-vaccine. Taking Ivermectin for COVID from a doctor as an objectively "bad idea" is ridiculous, because it has been widely prescribed around the world for COVID. At best, it is a "marginally pointless idea."
  - crooked-v 5y ago
    It's been well-documented in the news, including people being hospitalized after overdosing on the stuff: https://www.mississippifreepress.org/15002/person-hospitalized-after-taking-livestock-ivermectin-from-feed-store-to-treat-covid-19/ https://www.mississippifreepress.org/15002/person-hospitaliz... https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2021/08/25/ivermectin-livestock-deworming-drug-poison-control/5583817001/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2021/08/25/iverme... https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/why-you-should-not-use-ivermectin-treat-or-prevent-covid-19 https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/why-you-shoul...
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - gfodor 5y ago
      Since you cited the hilarious poison control story, you might enjoy this analysis: https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/too-good-to-check-a-play-in-three https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/too-good-to-check-a-pl...
    - 5y ago
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
Ivermectin is useful for control of parasites in humans (1) and other animals such as horses, but the grandparent is also correct, people are "literally buying and ingesting products intended for livestock" - from the veterinary aisle (2), and self-administering random doses not safe for humans, with bad consequences (3). It's sheer lunacy to do that. If it was effective for COVID-19 (a virus, not parasite), then medical staff would be administering correct doses. 1) https://www.who.int/tdr/news/2018/moxidectin-approved-as-treatment-for-river-blindness/en/ https://www.who.int/tdr/news/2018/moxidectin-approved-as-tre... 2) https://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/store-only-lets-you-buy-ivermectin-if-you-show-a-picture-with-your-horse/ https://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/store-only-le... 3) https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/09/04/1034217306/ivermectin-overdose-exposure-cases-poison-control-centers https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/0...
- hunterb123 5y ago
  Ivermectin is not just for control of parasites, the anti-viral properties it has is because it's a protease inhibitor. It prevents certain viruses from binding to cells. How effective it is at inhibiting binding is the question. This pill in the article and Pfizer's prophylactic are most likely more effective since it's not a by product but the intent. Also more profitable because of patents.

gfodor 5y ago

Nah, not many are, it's being prescribed by doctors on the hope that maybe it kinda sorta works. (It probably doesn't.) It's a safe and widely used drug so on net it isn't a terrible idea if you have an extremely high risk person. Though my understanding is the evidence in favor has gotten weaker over time.