4 ms·

If I understand things correctly, this only helps _before_ hospitalization.

loeg 5y ago
The trial was on non-hospitalized patients, because you can't test impact on hospitalization risk with patients that are already hospitalized. But given the supposed mechanism of action, I don't think there's any reason to believe it would not also be an effective therapy for hospitalized patients.
- matt_heimer 5y ago
  This drug is an antiviral and isn't the Covid viral load already on the decline by the time that most people are hospitalized? See Fig 2 from https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m3862 https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m3862 . Its the other issues like the inflammatory cytokine response, tissue damage, and secondary infections that cause the poor outcomes in most hospitalized patients. So you'd need to take any antiviral early on. I think they said within 5 days in this study. Also of interest is that the 5 day marker is where the mild and severe cases diverge according to the article I linked to.
  - linuxftw 5y ago
    It makes one wonder why they administer remdesivir and other similar drugs to hospitalized patients.
_3u10 5y ago
Yes, so similar to ivermectin, it doesn't work.
- loeg 5y ago
  No, that seems to be false? > At the interim analysis, molnupiravir reduced the risk of hospitalization or death by approximately 50%
  - _3u10 5y ago
    Studies indicate ivermectin works given before hospitalization, doesn't work during hospitalization.
    - loeg 5y ago
      No. Studies on ivermectin are mixed, and it seems like the ones that showed positive effects had falsified data[1]. Additionally, this trial does not demonstrate that Molnupiravir is ineffective after hospitalization. [1]: https://www.theguardian.com/science/2021/jul/16/huge-study-supporting-ivermectin-as-covid-treatment-withdrawn-over-ethical-concerns https://www.theguardian.com/science/2021/jul/16/huge-study-s...
      - gfodor 5y ago
        They should just brand this drug as the "New Ivermectin", kill two birds with one stone and save countless lives. Comeon marketing people, I believe in you!
      - twofornone 5y ago
        No, one of the positive studies about ivermectin had questionable data. There are dozens of studies with positive results. This post and the article you linked are misinformation. Edit: I don't normally comment on downvotes but the sentiment expressed by the silent downvoters in this thread is pretty gross. We're trying to have a discussion here, but clearly certain perspectives are not allowed, even if supported by data. There is nothing incorrect about what I posted, or what GP posted about studies showing that ivermectin does potentially work (these studies exist, are peer reviewed and published, even if they are weak studies as claimed), yet here we all are sitting at -4 for daring to go against the so called "consensus" by citing published literature. This censoriousness is uncalled for, counterproductive, and, totally ascientific.
        raphlinus 5y ago
        At least two pro-ivermectin studies have been retracted. The remaining evidence is weak. I don't think your claim of misinformation is well supported. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01535-y https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01535-y
dopamean 5y ago
Right. Other wise "reduces risk of hospitalization" wouldn't make sense...
- loeg 5y ago
  Well, yeah -- tautologically, it only helps reduce risk of hospitalization before hospitalization. But it could still be a useful therapy post-hospitalization -- I don't know.
felistoria 5y ago
People need to be proactive and get tested if they feel a sickness coming on. It seems like there are a few good treatments if you catch it early. When you are hooked up to a ventilator it is too little too late.
- TechBro8615 5y ago
  Now we need a way to get these pills safely to someone’s door in less than 24 hours. If you call your doctor just when you’re developing Covid symptoms, he should be able to get a regimen of these pills delivered to you on the same day. Without that, they’re not only pointless but will seem ineffective.
dibujante 5y ago
My understanding as well. By the time people are hospitalized, the disease isn't necessarily still prolific in their body; the post-infection damage kills them.
- sudosysgen 5y ago
  It is possible that it could allow for more aggressive immune modulation and immune suppression in people where post-infection and immune damage is the main issue.

loeg 5y ago

The trial was on non-hospitalized patients, because you can't test impact on hospitalization risk with patients that are already hospitalized. But given the supposed mechanism of action, I don't think there's any reason to believe it would not also be an effective therapy for hospitalized patients.

matt_heimer 5y ago
This drug is an antiviral and isn't the Covid viral load already on the decline by the time that most people are hospitalized? See Fig 2 from https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m3862 https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m3862 . Its the other issues like the inflammatory cytokine response, tissue damage, and secondary infections that cause the poor outcomes in most hospitalized patients. So you'd need to take any antiviral early on. I think they said within 5 days in this study. Also of interest is that the 5 day marker is where the mild and severe cases diverge according to the article I linked to.
- linuxftw 5y ago
  It makes one wonder why they administer remdesivir and other similar drugs to hospitalized patients.

_3u10 5y ago

Yes, so similar to ivermectin, it doesn't work.

loeg 5y ago
No, that seems to be false? > At the interim analysis, molnupiravir reduced the risk of hospitalization or death by approximately 50%
- _3u10 5y ago
  Studies indicate ivermectin works given before hospitalization, doesn't work during hospitalization.
  - loeg 5y ago
    No. Studies on ivermectin are mixed, and it seems like the ones that showed positive effects had falsified data[1]. Additionally, this trial does not demonstrate that Molnupiravir is ineffective after hospitalization. [1]: https://www.theguardian.com/science/2021/jul/16/huge-study-supporting-ivermectin-as-covid-treatment-withdrawn-over-ethical-concerns https://www.theguardian.com/science/2021/jul/16/huge-study-s...
    - gfodor 5y ago
      They should just brand this drug as the "New Ivermectin", kill two birds with one stone and save countless lives. Comeon marketing people, I believe in you!
    - twofornone 5y ago
      No, one of the positive studies about ivermectin had questionable data. There are dozens of studies with positive results. This post and the article you linked are misinformation. Edit: I don't normally comment on downvotes but the sentiment expressed by the silent downvoters in this thread is pretty gross. We're trying to have a discussion here, but clearly certain perspectives are not allowed, even if supported by data. There is nothing incorrect about what I posted, or what GP posted about studies showing that ivermectin does potentially work (these studies exist, are peer reviewed and published, even if they are weak studies as claimed), yet here we all are sitting at -4 for daring to go against the so called "consensus" by citing published literature. This censoriousness is uncalled for, counterproductive, and, totally ascientific.
      - raphlinus 5y ago
        At least two pro-ivermectin studies have been retracted. The remaining evidence is weak. I don't think your claim of misinformation is well supported. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01535-y https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01535-y

dopamean 5y ago

Right. Other wise "reduces risk of hospitalization" wouldn't make sense...

loeg 5y ago
Well, yeah -- tautologically, it only helps reduce risk of hospitalization before hospitalization. But it could still be a useful therapy post-hospitalization -- I don't know.

felistoria 5y ago

People need to be proactive and get tested if they feel a sickness coming on. It seems like there are a few good treatments if you catch it early. When you are hooked up to a ventilator it is too little too late.

TechBro8615 5y ago
Now we need a way to get these pills safely to someone’s door in less than 24 hours. If you call your doctor just when you’re developing Covid symptoms, he should be able to get a regimen of these pills delivered to you on the same day. Without that, they’re not only pointless but will seem ineffective.

dibujante 5y ago

My understanding as well. By the time people are hospitalized, the disease isn't necessarily still prolific in their body; the post-infection damage kills them.

sudosysgen 5y ago
It is possible that it could allow for more aggressive immune modulation and immune suppression in people where post-infection and immune damage is the main issue.