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This is where Web3 comes in. The last two decades have proven that building a scalable system that decentralizes content is a challenge. While the technology to

This is where Web3 comes in. The last two decades have proven that building a scalable system that decentralizes content is a challenge. While the technology to build such systems exists, no content platform achieves decentralization at scale. There is one notable exception: Bitcoin. I don't consider myself well versed in crypto, but there's a whole wikipedia page on its scalability problem: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin_scalability_problem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin_scalability_problem The transaction processing capacity maximum estimated using an average or median transaction size is between 3.3 and 7 transactions per second. And that page doesn't touch on the energy consumption: According to the Cambridge Center for Alternative Finance (CCAF), Bitcoin currently consumes around 110 Terawatt Hours per year — 0.55% of global electricity production, or roughly equivalent to the annual energy draw of small countries like Malaysia or Sweden. https://hbr.org/2021/05/how-much-energy-does-bitcoin-actually-consume https://hbr.org/2021/05/how-much-energy-does-bitcoin-actuall... I'm guessing that these problems get brought up a lot, but as it relates to this article, I wouldn't build my argument on Bitcoin being a pillar of scaling. Perhaps virality, but I'd argue that has more to do with financial speculation than solving end-user problems.

floatboth 5y ago
It's an unprecedented global scale for a Ponzi scheme as measured in dollars, that's for sure.
jzm2k 5y ago
While Bitcoin certainly has scalability issues, I think the point they are trying to make is that is there any other decentralized system that has been able to reach the scale of Bitcoin.
- rchaud 5y ago
  What about torrents? Those have been around forever, and I just downloaded Gimp over one instead of using their server's bandwidth. Maybe they're talking purely about dollar value, but I'd say more useful information has been passed back and forth with torrents.
  - whywhywhywhy 5y ago
    Imagine if the database of what.cd has been distributed as well. We’d definitely have the most comprehensive and accurate catalogue of the musical output of humanity ever created. Instead now we have Spotify and Apple Music. We’ve only scratched the surface of the good that torrent technology can do.
  - magila 5y ago
    Yes, bittorrent is a much better example of a scalable decentralized system. The problem with bittorrent is that no one has come up with a good way to monetize it. What makes bitcoin exceptional among decentralized systems is not its scalability, but rather its ability to make people rich.
    - dicethrowaway1 5y ago
      >The problem with bittorrent is that no one has come up with a good way to monetize it. That decentralized software aligns much easier with commons than with markets is something that I would consider a feature, not a bug.
- erk__ 5y ago
  Could you not see e-mail as decentralized as well?
- acdha 5y ago
  Email and DNS have been doing more transactions per second since the 1980s. The Web started later and passed it by the mid-90s. All of those are truly decentralized with a wide range of implementations and operators, not to mention proven real-world robustness as opposed to Bitcoin's hard requirement on a massive amount of always-on hardware and network capacity.
  - jzm2k 5y ago
    It's not my argument really, I was trying to interpret what they meant with Bitcoin being the exception. You're right that there may be better examples but how much of the world's email and DNS content is served by Google/Microsoft, I wonder. People are also complaining in other threads that Cloudflare is actually making the internet more centralized.
- JustFinishedBSG 5y ago
  > is there any other decentralized system that has been able to reach the scale of Bitcoin. You're litterally sending this message accross a decentralized system that outscaled bitcoin by many many orders of magnitudes in a fraction of the time. I don't think cryptobros and the rest of the world have the same definition of "decentralized" because clearly we don't understand each other
  - acdha 5y ago
    > I don't think cryptobros and the rest of the world have the same definition of "decentralized" because clearly we don't understand each other This is true of most of the common sales points: for example, you'll see people claim blockchains are censorship resistant or anonymous, beneficial to the global unbanked, etc. with little ability to explain how that's actually true in practice.
thibmeu 5y ago
*author's here. Agree with you 110 Terawatt Hours per year is likely too much, even though it's `less alarming than you might think` (quote from the last paragraph of HBR article). Core of the post was not much on the usage of Bitcoin rather than the trend towards decentralisation. Resource usage of proof-of-work based blockchain is definitely a discussion for a later post though. I also invite you to look at the source for this number (https://cbeci.org/cbeci/comparisons https://cbeci.org/cbeci/comparisons), which is nuanced, and makes the distinction between electricity and energy consumption.
- sandofsky 5y ago
  Bitcoin consumes more energy than Sweden. There is no nuance. If you'd like to address that, feel free engage here, but I'm not wasting my time on the mental gymnastics course you linked to.
rglover 5y ago
Re: Bitcoin scaling it's worth looking at the Lightning Network. Much faster and significant throughput: https://lightning.network/ https://lightning.network/ This is what Twitter is in the process of implementing through Strike.
- RNCTX 5y ago
  None of this addresses the ever-increasing and mostly-pointless power consumption aspects. And sorry if I don't trust the self-described "trust-less" money developers to get batching right on the first try. The only reason this isn't being exploited is because no one is using it.
  - rglover 5y ago
    Now do the petrodollar.
- floatboth 5y ago
  It's a complete joke. https://github.com/davidshares/Lightning-Network https://github.com/davidshares/Lightning-Network https://www.reddit.com/r/Buttcoin/comments/mlc5o6/how_is_lightning_network_doing/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Buttcoin/comments/mlc5o6/how_is_lig...

floatboth 5y ago

It's an unprecedented global scale for a Ponzi scheme as measured in dollars, that's for sure.

jzm2k 5y ago

While Bitcoin certainly has scalability issues, I think the point they are trying to make is that is there any other decentralized system that has been able to reach the scale of Bitcoin.

rchaud 5y ago
What about torrents? Those have been around forever, and I just downloaded Gimp over one instead of using their server's bandwidth. Maybe they're talking purely about dollar value, but I'd say more useful information has been passed back and forth with torrents.
- whywhywhywhy 5y ago
  Imagine if the database of what.cd has been distributed as well. We’d definitely have the most comprehensive and accurate catalogue of the musical output of humanity ever created. Instead now we have Spotify and Apple Music. We’ve only scratched the surface of the good that torrent technology can do.
- magila 5y ago
  Yes, bittorrent is a much better example of a scalable decentralized system. The problem with bittorrent is that no one has come up with a good way to monetize it. What makes bitcoin exceptional among decentralized systems is not its scalability, but rather its ability to make people rich.
  - dicethrowaway1 5y ago
    >The problem with bittorrent is that no one has come up with a good way to monetize it. That decentralized software aligns much easier with commons than with markets is something that I would consider a feature, not a bug.
erk__ 5y ago
Could you not see e-mail as decentralized as well?
acdha 5y ago
Email and DNS have been doing more transactions per second since the 1980s. The Web started later and passed it by the mid-90s. All of those are truly decentralized with a wide range of implementations and operators, not to mention proven real-world robustness as opposed to Bitcoin's hard requirement on a massive amount of always-on hardware and network capacity.
- jzm2k 5y ago
  It's not my argument really, I was trying to interpret what they meant with Bitcoin being the exception. You're right that there may be better examples but how much of the world's email and DNS content is served by Google/Microsoft, I wonder. People are also complaining in other threads that Cloudflare is actually making the internet more centralized.
JustFinishedBSG 5y ago
> is there any other decentralized system that has been able to reach the scale of Bitcoin. You're litterally sending this message accross a decentralized system that outscaled bitcoin by many many orders of magnitudes in a fraction of the time. I don't think cryptobros and the rest of the world have the same definition of "decentralized" because clearly we don't understand each other
- acdha 5y ago
  > I don't think cryptobros and the rest of the world have the same definition of "decentralized" because clearly we don't understand each other This is true of most of the common sales points: for example, you'll see people claim blockchains are censorship resistant or anonymous, beneficial to the global unbanked, etc. with little ability to explain how that's actually true in practice.

thibmeu 5y ago

*author's here. Agree with you 110 Terawatt Hours per year is likely too much, even though it's `less alarming than you might think` (quote from the last paragraph of HBR article). Core of the post was not much on the usage of Bitcoin rather than the trend towards decentralisation. Resource usage of proof-of-work based blockchain is definitely a discussion for a later post though. I also invite you to look at the source for this number (https://cbeci.org/cbeci/comparisons https://cbeci.org/cbeci/comparisons), which is nuanced, and makes the distinction between electricity and energy consumption.

sandofsky 5y ago
Bitcoin consumes more energy than Sweden. There is no nuance. If you'd like to address that, feel free engage here, but I'm not wasting my time on the mental gymnastics course you linked to.

rglover 5y ago

Re: Bitcoin scaling it's worth looking at the Lightning Network. Much faster and significant throughput: https://lightning.network/ https://lightning.network/ This is what Twitter is in the process of implementing through Strike.

RNCTX 5y ago
None of this addresses the ever-increasing and mostly-pointless power consumption aspects. And sorry if I don't trust the self-described "trust-less" money developers to get batching right on the first try. The only reason this isn't being exploited is because no one is using it.
- rglover 5y ago
  Now do the petrodollar.
floatboth 5y ago
It's a complete joke. https://github.com/davidshares/Lightning-Network https://github.com/davidshares/Lightning-Network https://www.reddit.com/r/Buttcoin/comments/mlc5o6/how_is_lightning_network_doing/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Buttcoin/comments/mlc5o6/how_is_lig...