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Blue Origin employees say they wouldn't feel safe riding the company's rockets
- LurkingPenguin 5y agoOn the plus side, I think this is an easy rebrand. Blue Origin: out of this world coffee. Charge $10 for Milky Way lattes at a flagship store on the Amazon Seattle campus and call it a day.
- Veen 5y agoDoes anyone feel safe riding in rockets? They're inherently dangerous. Although from the tenor of the letter, it seems they're more worried about "unsafe environments" created by sexist comments than exploding rockets.
- kamranjon 5y ago'It also said that in 2018, when someone new took over one particular team, the manager discovered that the team had documented "more than 1,000 problem reports" related to the company's rocket engines. None of those reports had been addressed, the letter said.' This is from the article you are responding to.
- JackFr 5y agoIf someone took a look at my production logs and counted the number of times 'WARN' appeared, it would not be a very effective measure of either the correctness or robustness of my software. Similarly without context "more than 1,000 problem reports" is worthless.
- barbazoo 5y agoAre you building rockets carrying people, though?
- xboxnolifes 5y agoAre you? And if not, where have you gotten the context surrounding the reports and their significance?
- barbazoo 5y agoOh no way would I work on something like that but that's not the point. If multiple sources working on something with significant inherent risk tell me that THEY don't think it's safe, that's a red flag.
- Veen 5y agoIt would be more convincing if those "multiple sources" weren't lots of anonymous people and one named individual—a non-technical head of employee communications—who was fired for cause by the company in question two years ago.
- barbazoo 5y agoFine, you go ride on their rockets, then :)
- xboxnolifes 5y agoIf they offered me a ride, for free, I would take it.
- pc86 5y agoI agree that it needs more context, but a "problem report" is clearly something much more pressing than a WARN console statement.
- ThePadawan 5y agoMaybe I'm naive, but isn't that the level of urgency a WARN would suggest? In my mind: DEBUG is irrelevant outside of debugging, INFO is useful (let's say for performance measurements), WARN suggests that something is off (even if it might not need immediate action) and ERROR means "something has completely failed here and needs immediate intervention".
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- Voloskaya 5y agoDangerosity isn't a boolean, there are many degrees to it. And the article you are commenting on, makes it very clear that former and current employees of BO think that corners are being cut and safety is compromised by the lack of personel to achieve the over ambitious goals of the leadership.
- kcplate 5y agoIf the engineer behind the rocket I am riding is a complete sexist asshole, but still the best person in the world at making rockets that carry people, I’m gonna give him a pass on his assholiness if I am sitting on top of it. Let’s not forget the father of The US space program was a Nazi. An actual Nazi and not the generic 2021 definition. An
- someperson 5y agohttps://arstechnica.com/science/2021/09/former-blue-origin-employees-decry-safety-and-sexist-culture-at-the-company/ https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/09/former-blue-origin-e...
- spoonjim 5y agoMost people wouldn’t feel safe riding any rocket. That’s why they call it “The Right Stuff.”
- twobuy 5y agoWhy would you feel safe riding a rocket? "Safe" is not the word.
- mach1ne 5y agoBlue Origin is well on its way of becoming the most unpopular company in the world. They might already hold that spot in the space category.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- twofornone 5y agoSo it's a good time to buy the stock? I'm not entirely joking. It's high risk but all that hatred may mean a discount and immediate gains once (if) the first commercial flight is a success...
- barbazoo 5y agoI'm not sure, they have Boeing to compete with :)
- sebazzz 5y agoBoeing is just in a position to feel sorry for, after the Starliner had so many issues and has been delayed so long.
- JackFr 5y agoSo no one is willing to put their name to the letter except a person who was fired for cause two years ago. > the manager discovered that the team had documented "more than 1,000 problem reports" related to the company's rocket engines. Without context, that claim is completely meaningless with respect to the safety. This is a hack job and a garbage story.
- varelse 5y agoHi Jeff!
- ddevault 5y agoHere's a quote from NASA regarding Blue Origin: > But it is not an overstatement to say that all of the successes upon which the Option A procurement is built, all of this once-in-a-generation momentum, can easily be undone by one party—in this case, Blue Origin—who seeks to prioritize its own fortunes over that of NASA, the United States, and every person alive today who dreams to see humans exploring worlds beyond our own. Plainly stated, a protest sustain in the instant dispute runs the high risk of creating not just delays for the Artemis program, but that it will never actually achieve its goal of returning the United States to the Moon. What begins as a mere procurement delay all too easily turns into a lack of political support, a budget siphoned off for other efforts, and ultimately, a shelved mission. GAO should, of course, sustain one or more of Blue Origin’s grounds of protest if they find them to be availing. But NASA merely wishes to impress upon this office just how high the stakes are in the present dispute. Source: https://www.theverge.com/2021/9/29/22689729/blue-origin-moon-lunar-lander-price-nasa-hls-foia https://www.theverge.com/2021/9/29/22689729/blue-origin-moon...
- JackFr 5y agoHere's a quote from NASA's lawyers in response to a protest to GAO that SpaceX received preferential treatment to Blue Origin: ... (In fact Blue Origin's complaint was that SpaceX's proposal was inconsistent with NASA's safety review requirements, and SpaceX was given an opportunity to tweak their proposal.)
- throwaway20875 5y agoThis reads like a hit piece.
- jakey_bakey 5y agoReminds me of the Silicon Valley episode where the stunt driver miscalculated and Dinesh and Gilfoyle had to decide whether to tell him: "Let Jeff die" Strengths - One less billionaire in the world Weaknesses - Possibility of being fired Opportunities - Dissolve blue origin Threats - Possible legal action
- anaganisk 5y agoOne less billionaire in the world? Doesn’t he have any legal heir to inherit his wealth? If you are someone who decides if a mission is a go no go you are mostly wanted to be hired by someone else. Thats not an opportunity at all, you will probably be hated by many people who just lost their job. About threats, well shit.
- Laremere 5y agoSomewhat meta: Every time I try to engage with news sites like this, I'm frustrated when links appear to be useful, but are just links to other articles. In this case, there's clearly a link for "open letter", which should lead to the contents of the open letter. That's what I actually want to read. I understand they do it to keep users on their site, loading ads, but damn if it's a horrible user experience. (Other annoyances include the TITLE of the article being on the lower half of my screen because of the giant space used for a single ad, having to scroll 3 whole page lengths just to see the first words of the actual article, and "do you want to get notifications?" popups covering the content I was trying to read.)
- ddevault 5y agoThe actual open letter: https://www.lioness.co/post/bezos-wants-to-create-a-better-future-in-space-his-company-blue-origin-is-stuck-in-a-toxic-past https://www.lioness.co/post/bezos-wants-to-create-a-better-f...
- opwieurposiu 5y agoIf you want your safety complaint to do any good, it needs to be specific and actionable. Something like "Power bus C has unexplained overvoltage events during startup" or "Welds on PN123 were not x-rayed correctly" or "These o-rings become too stiff and stop sealing below 45f" A general complaint about working conditions may make you feel absolved when the rocket blows up, but it will not prevent the rocket from blowing up.
- toss1 5y agoTrue, but coming from a harsh & strict NDA environment, it's not so easy to be that specific without revealing clues to your identity. And if you aren't prepared to go the full whistle-blower route, best avoided (or make the general assertion here & be specific in a private communication to the FAA, NASA, etc.) .
- dharmab 5y agoAlso working in aerospace- HN community does not understand how strictly information has to be controlled. In many cases you are subject to criminal penalties (e.g. export controls) Sorry about your downvotes.
- toss1 5y agoThx, & Yup Aerospace (I work in that industry too) is VERY strict about information control, and a wide variety of info is unclassified, but designated as 'Controlled Unclassified Information' - 'CUI'. There is a whole system of qualifications to even access CUI, along with requirements for it's handling. We must even check a database to verify whether any supplier, partner, or customer has the required qualifications to broadcast it, and there are serious penalties for breaching it. If Blue Origin is doing any DOD work, a lot of their technology will fall under this classification. Broadcasting even descriptions of it to the general public would be a serious violation, and really stupid in this instance, as the soon-to-be-former employer will also be pushing for your prosecution. But unfortunately, HN is not immune to postings with less information and more attitude.
- deleted 5y ago
- sparrish 5y agoNext up, sausage factory work says they wouldn't feel safe eating company's sausage. It's a rocket. It's dangerous and there are risks.
- barbazoo 5y agoI think that would be equally concerning, if not more. Do you know of any?
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- ojosilva 5y agoI've just finished the book Bad Blood about Theranos fall, and this strikes an eerie chord. Whistle-blowers armed with courage and nothing more due to aggressive legal intimidation. People and media, with the unsuspecting help of strong company PR counter-tactics, calls them disgruntled and points out the weaknesses in their legally constrained narrative. Often, like in Theranos case, no one knows what goes on behind the curtain until it's too late.
- thrill 5y agoI'd ride it.