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I understand that people shouldn't benefit from insider information for their personal trading - but there are rules around this. Blanket banning stock trading

by zz865 5y ago

I understand that people shouldn't benefit from insider information for their personal trading - but there are rules around this. Blanket banning stock trading has a lot of downsides. Its an important part of everyone's financial wellbeing - esp if you are wealthy or powerful. I left my job in financial industry primarily because of this.

smiley1437 5y ago
> - but there are rules around this Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? From the article, judges aren't even properly recusing themselves.
elliekelly 5y ago
You make it sound like a quality of life issue similar to having a flexible schedule when it’s really about managing the conflict of interest. Part of the problem is the rules judges and elected officials are held to barely scratch the surface of what a financial professional must do.
kemiller2002 5y ago
Public service used to be thought of as a sacrifice for the good of all people. For many people it is. Teachers, social workers, public defenders, armed service people. All of these people make a pittance compared to what they could in the private sector. Saying a congressperson or a judge should be allowed to trade stocks simply because it affects their well being is an argument that appears rather frail. I would be surprised if there is anyone in those positions of power either elected or appointed who would be considered to be even slightly financially disadvantaged. If they want to be wealthy, let them go back to work as attorneys or whatever profession they came from.
- beached_whale 5y ago
  If anything, you would want elected officials to be invested in their country as a whole, so indexed funds and stuff like that. Yes they are lower risk, but they also reflect how a larger group of companies are doing vs the ones they have first hand information about.
  - Jcowell 5y ago
    That’s not being invested in the country, that’s being invested in companies and the latter’s interest are not always in in favor of the former’s citizen.
- throwaway9870 5y ago
  > Teachers, social workers, public defenders, armed service people. I don't agree with that in all cases. I have a friend who is a teacher and admits teaching is a great job for him (2nd grade) and he doesn't know what he would do otherwise. Probably some type of physical work. He is a great guy, but just isn't that sharp. He is punctual and dependable, but not real good at thinking on his feet. He makes about $82k teaching (20+ years experience in a reasonably affordable area) and I can't think of another job that would pay him that well, give him the summer off, great healthcare and a pension. I know a few more teachers and perhaps it is the group of people I hang out with, but they all are closer to him than to some person making a sacrifice for the good of society.
  - jimhefferon 5y ago
    There are something like 3.5 or 4 million teachers in the US, so for sure they are not all self-sacrificing saints and there will be a broad mix of motivations. But FWIW my experience is not like yours. I am a college professor and have seen many students over the years go into teaching, either at the secondary or elementary level (specifically, math teaching). When I meet with them to discuss what they want to do, almost all express that when they think about careers, their interest in teaching is because it is a reasonable career with reasonable pay, yes, but just as important to them is the sense of doing good, of directly helping people. (I have less experience with people in the services but what experience I do have is in the same direction.)
  - cudgy 5y ago
    “He is punctual and dependable, but not real good at thinking on his feet.” Doesn’t this describe most people that do well in large organizations?
    - jjj123 5y ago
      Yep. I can think of a few people that meet this description (myself included?) that worked at a ycombinator-backed unicorn startup making wayyy more than 85k.
- zz865 5y ago
  In America that is true which is one of the reasons US public service sucks. Places like France public servants are well paid, desirable and prestigious jobs.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
danaris 5y ago
> Its an important part of everyone's financial wellbeing But should it be? It seems to me this is part of the problem: the outsized role the stock market plays in our financial system today.
- j-pb 5y ago
  I think that's a pretty valid question to ask, but one that doesn't sit right with the typical neo-liberal/venture-capital clientele on HN. The wishful image of financial autonomy and chances of personal and business development through a public market seems to provide too much cognitive dissonance when confronted with the realities of how bloated, speculative, manipulated, and self-fulfilling stock markets have become. It's like telling someone who's put their entire live saving into bitcoin that it's a pyramid scheme. I mean any other idea would probably die on here, once it's been shown that it's success is coupled to NP=P being true.(https://arxiv.org/abs/1002.2284 https://arxiv.org/abs/1002.2284)
soco 5y ago
I can't see the downside in affecting the financial wellbeing of the wealthy and powerful.
- closeparen 5y ago
  Low-paying positions of power are a recipe for bribery.
  - soco 5y ago
    You are right because human nature and bribery will always be there - no amount of pay will stop one from wanting more. That's what the PC said as well: the wealthy and powerful don't want to lose their wealth and power either, do they. The question is, what do we choose to do in such a situation?
- grayhatter 5y ago
  It seems like you're not thinking clearly then. Everyone has a vested interest in making sure no party is willing to flip the table rather than continue to play the game.

by zz865 5y ago

smiley1437 5y ago

> - but there are rules around this Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? From the article, judges aren't even properly recusing themselves.

elliekelly 5y ago

You make it sound like a quality of life issue similar to having a flexible schedule when it’s really about managing the conflict of interest. Part of the problem is the rules judges and elected officials are held to barely scratch the surface of what a financial professional must do.

kemiller2002 5y ago

Public service used to be thought of as a sacrifice for the good of all people. For many people it is. Teachers, social workers, public defenders, armed service people. All of these people make a pittance compared to what they could in the private sector. Saying a congressperson or a judge should be allowed to trade stocks simply because it affects their well being is an argument that appears rather frail. I would be surprised if there is anyone in those positions of power either elected or appointed who would be considered to be even slightly financially disadvantaged. If they want to be wealthy, let them go back to work as attorneys or whatever profession they came from.

beached_whale 5y ago
If anything, you would want elected officials to be invested in their country as a whole, so indexed funds and stuff like that. Yes they are lower risk, but they also reflect how a larger group of companies are doing vs the ones they have first hand information about.
- Jcowell 5y ago
  That’s not being invested in the country, that’s being invested in companies and the latter’s interest are not always in in favor of the former’s citizen.
throwaway9870 5y ago
> Teachers, social workers, public defenders, armed service people. I don't agree with that in all cases. I have a friend who is a teacher and admits teaching is a great job for him (2nd grade) and he doesn't know what he would do otherwise. Probably some type of physical work. He is a great guy, but just isn't that sharp. He is punctual and dependable, but not real good at thinking on his feet. He makes about $82k teaching (20+ years experience in a reasonably affordable area) and I can't think of another job that would pay him that well, give him the summer off, great healthcare and a pension. I know a few more teachers and perhaps it is the group of people I hang out with, but they all are closer to him than to some person making a sacrifice for the good of society.
- jimhefferon 5y ago
  There are something like 3.5 or 4 million teachers in the US, so for sure they are not all self-sacrificing saints and there will be a broad mix of motivations. But FWIW my experience is not like yours. I am a college professor and have seen many students over the years go into teaching, either at the secondary or elementary level (specifically, math teaching). When I meet with them to discuss what they want to do, almost all express that when they think about careers, their interest in teaching is because it is a reasonable career with reasonable pay, yes, but just as important to them is the sense of doing good, of directly helping people. (I have less experience with people in the services but what experience I do have is in the same direction.)
- cudgy 5y ago
  “He is punctual and dependable, but not real good at thinking on his feet.” Doesn’t this describe most people that do well in large organizations?
  - jjj123 5y ago
    Yep. I can think of a few people that meet this description (myself included?) that worked at a ycombinator-backed unicorn startup making wayyy more than 85k.
zz865 5y ago
In America that is true which is one of the reasons US public service sucks. Places like France public servants are well paid, desirable and prestigious jobs.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

danaris 5y ago

> Its an important part of everyone's financial wellbeing But should it be? It seems to me this is part of the problem: the outsized role the stock market plays in our financial system today.

j-pb 5y ago
I think that's a pretty valid question to ask, but one that doesn't sit right with the typical neo-liberal/venture-capital clientele on HN. The wishful image of financial autonomy and chances of personal and business development through a public market seems to provide too much cognitive dissonance when confronted with the realities of how bloated, speculative, manipulated, and self-fulfilling stock markets have become. It's like telling someone who's put their entire live saving into bitcoin that it's a pyramid scheme. I mean any other idea would probably die on here, once it's been shown that it's success is coupled to NP=P being true.(https://arxiv.org/abs/1002.2284 https://arxiv.org/abs/1002.2284)

soco 5y ago

I can't see the downside in affecting the financial wellbeing of the wealthy and powerful.

closeparen 5y ago
Low-paying positions of power are a recipe for bribery.
- soco 5y ago
  You are right because human nature and bribery will always be there - no amount of pay will stop one from wanting more. That's what the PC said as well: the wealthy and powerful don't want to lose their wealth and power either, do they. The question is, what do we choose to do in such a situation?
grayhatter 5y ago
It seems like you're not thinking clearly then. Everyone has a vested interest in making sure no party is willing to flip the table rather than continue to play the game.