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Pretty much. We can do so because the market is in our favor. Not because we have balls of steel unlike in other industries. I have terrible marketing skills a

Pretty much. We can do so because the market is in our favor. Not because we have balls of steel unlike in other industries. I have terrible marketing skills and yet, as a freelancer, I have to refuse work because there is so much demand. This also means I can charge a month of minimum wage for a day of my labor. That's awesome for me, but that's not normal. Everyone is a genius in a bull market.

jokethrowaway 5y ago
Very true. At the same time, software seems to be able to generate significantly more revenue for clients than other jobs. It makes sense that anyone wants a piece of the automation cake and therefore need software developers. If you think about the value you're providing, you'll see you're probably creating much more value for the company than for yourself. Sure, you charged 10k£ to build a dashboard serving 50 millions customers which took you a few days to build. That dashboard may avoid the company 25 millions calls, saving way more money than the 10k they spent on you.
AmericanChopper 5y ago
> I can charge a month of minimum wage for a day of my labor. That's awesome for me, but that's not normal. I’ve been working mostly as a contractor for quite a long time now. This honestly is quite normal. I’ve done contract work through 2 financial crises now, and the longest I’ve been unintentionally out of work was two months, and otherwise I’ve managed to charge high hourly/daily rates the whole time. I have seen a lot of my contractor friends go full-time during this pandemic though. When it first hit, the place that I was working at converted about 1200 contractors to full-time. The allure of job stability was too good to pass up. But the risks were an illusion the whole time. There was a shortage of software engineers during the GFC, a shortage of software engineers for the 10 years after it, and there’s been a shortage of software engineers during the pandemic. It’s just gotten so bad recently that people who were previously more risk averse have started to notice it.
- BiteCode_dev 5y ago
  > This honestly is quite normal For our industry, during the last 20 years. Not normal for most industries. Or in IT before 2000. > I have seen a lot of my contractor friends go full-time during this pandemic though Yeah, that's why I think it's important to have an elastic life style if you are a freelancer. So that you can suddenly cut 80% of your expenses. If you have big loans, an expensive car, 2 children in private school and live in a pricey area, if you revenue get shots, you are in trouble. > But the risks were an illusion the whole time. It was surprising though, wasn't it? I mean I expected calls to stop, but I got more of them. Now I have people calling me for things that are very far from my specialty. Software is, indeed, eating the world.
  - AmericanChopper 5y ago
    It’s been normal since software and the internet started to become an important part of every area of society. But that’s how economies progress. There was a period in recent history when demand for manufacturing labor greatly outstripped supply. Our skills are simply in demand by the fastest growing areas of the economy right now. Personally, I wasn’t surprised by this outcome. Temporary instability is what I was predicting. For demand for software engineers to actually tank, demand for software and software services would have to tank. I figured this was possible, but would require the entire global economy to collapse. So I figured it was unlikely, and in either case declining the offer I had to go full-time last year (when my employer at the time said they were terminating all their contractors) was most likely to be the correct decision (because full-time employment wasn’t going to protect me from global economic collapse). The thing that I didn’t predict at all, is how long travel restrictions would be in place. Which has turned out very well for software engineers in developed economies, because all developed economies import software engineering labor from developing economies.
    - BiteCode_dev 5y ago
      Sure. Also, we were the industry with the most experience and tooling to work remotely, not to mention the best format for that. That couldn't have hurt.
Dumblydorr 5y ago
Is it a bull market or a supply-constrained market? Bull market implies your work is heavily valued in a trendy way, whereas supply constraints mean it's simply very hard to find skilled engineers.
- BiteCode_dev 5y ago
  I'd say both, but the quote was not for accuracy, rather convey that we should stay humble about it.

jokethrowaway 5y ago

Very true. At the same time, software seems to be able to generate significantly more revenue for clients than other jobs. It makes sense that anyone wants a piece of the automation cake and therefore need software developers. If you think about the value you're providing, you'll see you're probably creating much more value for the company than for yourself. Sure, you charged 10k£ to build a dashboard serving 50 millions customers which took you a few days to build. That dashboard may avoid the company 25 millions calls, saving way more money than the 10k they spent on you.

AmericanChopper 5y ago

> I can charge a month of minimum wage for a day of my labor. That's awesome for me, but that's not normal. I’ve been working mostly as a contractor for quite a long time now. This honestly is quite normal. I’ve done contract work through 2 financial crises now, and the longest I’ve been unintentionally out of work was two months, and otherwise I’ve managed to charge high hourly/daily rates the whole time. I have seen a lot of my contractor friends go full-time during this pandemic though. When it first hit, the place that I was working at converted about 1200 contractors to full-time. The allure of job stability was too good to pass up. But the risks were an illusion the whole time. There was a shortage of software engineers during the GFC, a shortage of software engineers for the 10 years after it, and there’s been a shortage of software engineers during the pandemic. It’s just gotten so bad recently that people who were previously more risk averse have started to notice it.

BiteCode_dev 5y ago
> This honestly is quite normal For our industry, during the last 20 years. Not normal for most industries. Or in IT before 2000. > I have seen a lot of my contractor friends go full-time during this pandemic though Yeah, that's why I think it's important to have an elastic life style if you are a freelancer. So that you can suddenly cut 80% of your expenses. If you have big loans, an expensive car, 2 children in private school and live in a pricey area, if you revenue get shots, you are in trouble. > But the risks were an illusion the whole time. It was surprising though, wasn't it? I mean I expected calls to stop, but I got more of them. Now I have people calling me for things that are very far from my specialty. Software is, indeed, eating the world.
- AmericanChopper 5y ago
  It’s been normal since software and the internet started to become an important part of every area of society. But that’s how economies progress. There was a period in recent history when demand for manufacturing labor greatly outstripped supply. Our skills are simply in demand by the fastest growing areas of the economy right now. Personally, I wasn’t surprised by this outcome. Temporary instability is what I was predicting. For demand for software engineers to actually tank, demand for software and software services would have to tank. I figured this was possible, but would require the entire global economy to collapse. So I figured it was unlikely, and in either case declining the offer I had to go full-time last year (when my employer at the time said they were terminating all their contractors) was most likely to be the correct decision (because full-time employment wasn’t going to protect me from global economic collapse). The thing that I didn’t predict at all, is how long travel restrictions would be in place. Which has turned out very well for software engineers in developed economies, because all developed economies import software engineering labor from developing economies.
  - BiteCode_dev 5y ago
    Sure. Also, we were the industry with the most experience and tooling to work remotely, not to mention the best format for that. That couldn't have hurt.

Dumblydorr 5y ago

Is it a bull market or a supply-constrained market? Bull market implies your work is heavily valued in a trendy way, whereas supply constraints mean it's simply very hard to find skilled engineers.

BiteCode_dev 5y ago
I'd say both, but the quote was not for accuracy, rather convey that we should stay humble about it.