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To which my non technical friends don't know which to choose and didn't bother at all and went back to using WhatsApp. If that is the consequence for multiple

To which my non technical friends don't know which to choose and didn't bother at all and went back to using WhatsApp. If that is the consequence for multiple fragmented clients then no thanks.

zaik 5y ago
Just recommend the client you are using?
- colesantiago 5y ago
  Yes, and everyone went back to using WhatsApp as I said, including me. Nobody bothers with Signal and all these other fringe privacy apps or alternatives. That is my point.
  - atatatat 5y ago
    No, nobody in YOUR circle bothers with it. Approaching 50% of mine does. Don't project that laziness onto the entire populace, enabling others to feel comfortable that it's "too hard" to use Signal....that's awful.
    - colesantiago 5y ago
      > Don't project that laziness onto the entire populace, enabling others to feel comfortable that it's "too hard" to use Signal....that's awful. Unfortunately WhatsApp has a lot more staying power and social inertia than you would ever realise, regardless of how large a social circle is, and your anecdote doesn't change that either. Until Signal supports all or most of WhatsApp's features I don't see this changing.
      - approxim8ion 5y ago
        Signal does support most of WhatsApp's features though.
        colesantiago 5y ago
        Great, so this means I can use Signal to backup my messages on my old iPhone with an iCloud backup to my new phone right?
        circularfoyers 5y ago
        You can transfer all your messages from your old iPhone to your new one though[1]. [1] https://support.signal.org/hc/en-us/articles/360007059752-Backup-and-Restore-Messages https://support.signal.org/hc/en-us/articles/360007059752-Ba...
        approxim8ion 5y ago
        No, supporting most of anything doesn't mean having the one random thing you need as a certainty. But also yes, messages are transferrable.
        colesantiago 5y ago
        For most, it's also a deal breaker.
      - def_true_false 5y ago
        This didn't age very well.
        colesantiago 5y ago
        people are still using WhatsApp anyway, thats the whole point.
  - approxim8ion 5y ago
    I've had a lot of success getting people to move over to Signal personally. I have 400ish contacts on WhatsApp, and at least 150 on Signal, from like 5 or 6 before the T&C update from WhatsApp.
    - zaik 5y ago
      It would be a lot better to get people on federating networks like XMPP (the Internet standard for IM) or Matrix (currently has a better iOS client) instead of moving them from one walled garden to another.
      - approxim8ion 5y ago
        I agree it would be a lot better, but 1) I don't have the infrastructure or the time to self host at the moment, and almost none of my contacts have the ability. 2) My XMPP experience (using Conversations and a couple of free servers online) was inconsistent. No attachments were delivered, message storage was limited to the client side, and a few niggles in general. 3) Matrix.org tended to be slow and unreliable for me, definitely more so than Signal. And as mentioned, I can't self-host right now. If I could, I would have moved them to an open network, but for the reasons I mentioned and others, it's just not at the same level of convenience or usability yet. I might be more tolerant of these issues for advocacy's sake, but my contacts certainly wouldn't be.
        MattJ100 5y ago
        I hear you (and others), which is why we're trying to solve these kinds of barriers to XMPP adoption, with Snikket. It's a preconfigured server that can be self-hosted, or there is a hosted service available (you can migrate between them). Also included in the project are client apps with consistent feature set and behaviours across platforms (currently Android/iOS). This includes things you mentioned such as smooth file sharing, server-side storage, end-to-end encryption, etc. It's still relatively early days for the project (launched last year), but I guess my point is - if the things you listed are all that's holding you back from XMPP, try Snikket and give us some feedback :)

To which my non technical friends don't know which to choose and didn't bother at all and went back to using WhatsApp. If that is the consequence for multiple fragmented clients then no thanks.

zaik 5y ago

Just recommend the client you are using?

colesantiago 5y ago
Yes, and everyone went back to using WhatsApp as I said, including me. Nobody bothers with Signal and all these other fringe privacy apps or alternatives. That is my point.
- atatatat 5y ago
  No, nobody in YOUR circle bothers with it. Approaching 50% of mine does. Don't project that laziness onto the entire populace, enabling others to feel comfortable that it's "too hard" to use Signal....that's awful.
  - colesantiago 5y ago
    > Don't project that laziness onto the entire populace, enabling others to feel comfortable that it's "too hard" to use Signal....that's awful. Unfortunately WhatsApp has a lot more staying power and social inertia than you would ever realise, regardless of how large a social circle is, and your anecdote doesn't change that either. Until Signal supports all or most of WhatsApp's features I don't see this changing.
    - approxim8ion 5y ago
      Signal does support most of WhatsApp's features though.
      - colesantiago 5y ago
        Great, so this means I can use Signal to backup my messages on my old iPhone with an iCloud backup to my new phone right?
        circularfoyers 5y ago
        You can transfer all your messages from your old iPhone to your new one though[1]. [1] https://support.signal.org/hc/en-us/articles/360007059752-Backup-and-Restore-Messages https://support.signal.org/hc/en-us/articles/360007059752-Ba...
        approxim8ion 5y ago
        No, supporting most of anything doesn't mean having the one random thing you need as a certainty. But also yes, messages are transferrable.
        colesantiago 5y ago
        For most, it's also a deal breaker.
    - def_true_false 5y ago
      This didn't age very well.
      - colesantiago 5y ago
        people are still using WhatsApp anyway, thats the whole point.
- approxim8ion 5y ago
  I've had a lot of success getting people to move over to Signal personally. I have 400ish contacts on WhatsApp, and at least 150 on Signal, from like 5 or 6 before the T&C update from WhatsApp.
  - zaik 5y ago
    It would be a lot better to get people on federating networks like XMPP (the Internet standard for IM) or Matrix (currently has a better iOS client) instead of moving them from one walled garden to another.
    - approxim8ion 5y ago
      I agree it would be a lot better, but 1) I don't have the infrastructure or the time to self host at the moment, and almost none of my contacts have the ability. 2) My XMPP experience (using Conversations and a couple of free servers online) was inconsistent. No attachments were delivered, message storage was limited to the client side, and a few niggles in general. 3) Matrix.org tended to be slow and unreliable for me, definitely more so than Signal. And as mentioned, I can't self-host right now. If I could, I would have moved them to an open network, but for the reasons I mentioned and others, it's just not at the same level of convenience or usability yet. I might be more tolerant of these issues for advocacy's sake, but my contacts certainly wouldn't be.
      - MattJ100 5y ago
        I hear you (and others), which is why we're trying to solve these kinds of barriers to XMPP adoption, with Snikket. It's a preconfigured server that can be self-hosted, or there is a hosted service available (you can migrate between them). Also included in the project are client apps with consistent feature set and behaviours across platforms (currently Android/iOS). This includes things you mentioned such as smooth file sharing, server-side storage, end-to-end encryption, etc. It's still relatively early days for the project (launched last year), but I guess my point is - if the things you listed are all that's holding you back from XMPP, try Snikket and give us some feedback :)