4 ms·

Everyone pays for their internet access, so why should Netflix (or anyone else) suddenly pay for mine? Netflix isn’t pushing data, I’m pulling it. If my ISP is

by fuzzy2 5y ago

Everyone pays for their internet access, so why should Netflix (or anyone else) suddenly pay for mine? Netflix isn’t pushing data, I’m pulling it. If my ISP is losing money then I guess they better raise their prices, no?

Vaderv 5y ago
No.
xwdv 5y ago
Hmm, I guess ISPs could just drop traffic if they can’t afford it, but maybe if you push a lot of data you could pay more to have the content actually delivered to end users.
- Jensson 5y ago
  But that would raise subscription prices. Should every user really pay extra for each subscription based on the data they might use on that subscription?
  - tgv 5y ago
    Akshually ... that could make a bit of sense. Instead of paying for bandwidth you rarely use to your ISP, you could pay for bandwidth you actually use to the content provider. However, that would leave free content inaccessible, and probably create another wealth divide.
    - Jensson 5y ago
      But bandwidth is really cheap and this problem doesn't exist anywhere else. Worst case the ISP can increase their rates by a couple of dollars and improve their cables.
      - tgv 5y ago
        No argument from me. I just saw a tiny bit of logic behind another model of balancing the costs. The ISP would still have to upgrade the infrastructure in the end (although my model could lead to e.g. Netflix buying up ISPs).
- MereInterest 5y ago
  > maybe if you push a lot of data That's leads to a pretty simple conclusion, because Netflix doesn't push any data. I pull data from Netflix. I have already paid my ISP to pull data from anywhere I ask. If my ISP sits down at a negotiating table with Netflix and threatens to disrupt that, they should be laughed out of the room. "Pay me, or else I'm going to break my obligations to an unrelated third party." isn't a move that should have any respect.
  - xwdv 5y ago
    What if the ISP holds a powerful monopoly in some regions? Should we still be laughing?
    - rovr138 5y ago
      We should be! But the problem is the people that could get affected by their actions until they stop.
    - eximius 5y ago
      No, you grab metaphorical pitchforks.
    - CivBase 5y ago
      Then Musk and Bezos should be laughing since they'll likely be getting more customers for Starlink and (eventually) Kuiper. Hopefully low earth orbit satellite internet will put an end to ISP monopolies in the US since the government wont.
- spyder 5y ago
  ... and customers could just drop the ISP if they don't deliver the service they want (if there is no ISP monopoly there).
- ineedasername 5y ago
  The ISP could drop or throttle the traffic, assuming that's allowable under the ToS with their customers. But then of course their customers will quit and find an ISP that doesn't throttle/drop. Regardless, Netflix is not pushing content. The consumer is pulling it. As a one-off, issues like the Squid-Game aren't so bad, but if it's a chronic problem for the ISP then it's because their model of consumer consumption was wrong.
- tomtimtall 5y ago
  I’d be ok with then charging a significantly lower for a “limited bandwidth” connection. But I bought an unlimited, so they have no right to complain. Imagine if the same principles were used in other areas. You iPhone suddenly locking up after using Facebook to much because Facebook wasn’t paying Apple for access to its users.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
nsoxo 5y ago
Netflix is pushing data AND you are pulling it.
- yunohn 5y ago
  Nobody says that a bullock cart involves the bullock pulling the cart and the cart pushing the bullock. That’s only a physics framing.
  - nsoxo 5y ago
    This is commerce. It's a transaction. Both parties benefit.
- fouric 5y ago
  "Push" and "pull" in this context refer to the initiation of a session. The user is pulling, because they start streaming. Netflix does absolutely nothing by itself - it doesn't randomly start delivering data to you.
- jiggawatts 5y ago
  No, they are not "pushing" data. Pushing implies that data is sent by the server without clients explicitly requesting it. Pulling is when the client requests data explicitly. I get notifications pushed to my phone by Apple. I pull YouTube videos. YouTube doesn't suddenly decide to "push" random videos to my phone in the middle of the night. Similarly, Netflix doesn't "push" videos to their customers.

by fuzzy2 5y ago

Vaderv 5y ago

No.

xwdv 5y ago

Hmm, I guess ISPs could just drop traffic if they can’t afford it, but maybe if you push a lot of data you could pay more to have the content actually delivered to end users.

Jensson 5y ago
But that would raise subscription prices. Should every user really pay extra for each subscription based on the data they might use on that subscription?
- tgv 5y ago
  Akshually ... that could make a bit of sense. Instead of paying for bandwidth you rarely use to your ISP, you could pay for bandwidth you actually use to the content provider. However, that would leave free content inaccessible, and probably create another wealth divide.
  - Jensson 5y ago
    But bandwidth is really cheap and this problem doesn't exist anywhere else. Worst case the ISP can increase their rates by a couple of dollars and improve their cables.
    - tgv 5y ago
      No argument from me. I just saw a tiny bit of logic behind another model of balancing the costs. The ISP would still have to upgrade the infrastructure in the end (although my model could lead to e.g. Netflix buying up ISPs).
MereInterest 5y ago
> maybe if you push a lot of data That's leads to a pretty simple conclusion, because Netflix doesn't push any data. I pull data from Netflix. I have already paid my ISP to pull data from anywhere I ask. If my ISP sits down at a negotiating table with Netflix and threatens to disrupt that, they should be laughed out of the room. "Pay me, or else I'm going to break my obligations to an unrelated third party." isn't a move that should have any respect.
- xwdv 5y ago
  What if the ISP holds a powerful monopoly in some regions? Should we still be laughing?
  - rovr138 5y ago
    We should be! But the problem is the people that could get affected by their actions until they stop.
  - eximius 5y ago
    No, you grab metaphorical pitchforks.
  - CivBase 5y ago
    Then Musk and Bezos should be laughing since they'll likely be getting more customers for Starlink and (eventually) Kuiper. Hopefully low earth orbit satellite internet will put an end to ISP monopolies in the US since the government wont.
spyder 5y ago
... and customers could just drop the ISP if they don't deliver the service they want (if there is no ISP monopoly there).
ineedasername 5y ago
The ISP could drop or throttle the traffic, assuming that's allowable under the ToS with their customers. But then of course their customers will quit and find an ISP that doesn't throttle/drop. Regardless, Netflix is not pushing content. The consumer is pulling it. As a one-off, issues like the Squid-Game aren't so bad, but if it's a chronic problem for the ISP then it's because their model of consumer consumption was wrong.
tomtimtall 5y ago
I’d be ok with then charging a significantly lower for a “limited bandwidth” connection. But I bought an unlimited, so they have no right to complain. Imagine if the same principles were used in other areas. You iPhone suddenly locking up after using Facebook to much because Facebook wasn’t paying Apple for access to its users.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

nsoxo 5y ago

Netflix is pushing data AND you are pulling it.

yunohn 5y ago
Nobody says that a bullock cart involves the bullock pulling the cart and the cart pushing the bullock. That’s only a physics framing.
- nsoxo 5y ago
  This is commerce. It's a transaction. Both parties benefit.
fouric 5y ago
"Push" and "pull" in this context refer to the initiation of a session. The user is pulling, because they start streaming. Netflix does absolutely nothing by itself - it doesn't randomly start delivering data to you.
jiggawatts 5y ago
No, they are not "pushing" data. Pushing implies that data is sent by the server without clients explicitly requesting it. Pulling is when the client requests data explicitly. I get notifications pushed to my phone by Apple. I pull YouTube videos. YouTube doesn't suddenly decide to "push" random videos to my phone in the middle of the night. Similarly, Netflix doesn't "push" videos to their customers.