3 ms·

Perhaps I am missing something but how it the label here different than “cousin”?

by cm2187 5y ago

mrweasel 5y ago
It's a specific cousin. I have four cousins, three female and one male (Danish actually have different words for female and male cousins), this label can refer to only ONE of my four cousins.
- vitus 5y ago
  Right. To be more specific, this particular term conveys three things about the cousin: - relative age (this cousin is younger than you) - gender (this cousin is female) - and... an archaic notion of whether this cousin is related to you via a female blood relative (either your mother's sibling, or your father's sister).
  - mrweasel 5y ago
    > an archaic notion Maybe it's just part of the language now, and it will sound weird if you don't make that distinction? English has similar issues, in that it has two words: girlfriend and boyfriend, which is a bit old fashion, especially when you come from a language that doesn't make that distinction. On the other hand, what would you replace those two words with?
    - vitus 5y ago
      I don't disagree here. I'm commenting that the terminology dates back to familial structures and housing arrangements that largely no longer exist. Hence, archaic (since it's a historical artifact). As alluded to by other commenters: in China, women would be "married out" such that they would live with their husbands' families. As a result, the notion of "younger sister from outside" versus "younger sister down the hall" arose. That distinction doesn't exist if the newlywed couple doesn't move in with either of their parents. ... On the note of your question: English also has husband/wife, widow/widower, fiancé/fiancée (okay those are technically French loanwords). In the husband/wife scenario, we might use "spouse". And I still find "partner" a bit odd when it's used to refer to heterosexual couples, even if it's perfectly applicable. Is the more specialized terminology entirely irrelevant in either case (English or Chinese)? No, it conveys more information. But there are certainly situations where it's just not applicable (e.g. if one or both entities identify as nonbinary). (and as an aside, it's a distinction that makes the language harder to learn with all of its nuances -- my father has no sisters, so I grew up assuming that it was just "which parent's side is the cousin on?")
  - _dain_ 5y ago
    Why is it an "archaic notion"?
    - rocqua 5y ago
      Because matrilineal vs patrilineal descent doesn't matter much anymore in the modern (western) world.
      - _dain_ 5y ago
        But software doesn't exist solely in the western world, does it?
  - nullc 5y ago
    > archaic notion of whether this cousin is related to you via a female blood relative (either your mother's sibling, or your father's sister). This is a "doesn't share your last name" relationship in a conventional western family structure.
dsr_ 5y ago
Generalized sufficiently, all of these words mean "relative". Consider the weakest relationship between words and thoughts: the words that you habitually use guide/reflect how you think of the world. If the social relationship of "elder brother's husband" is different for you than "younger wife's sister" in some generalizable way, then words like these are meaningful to you. If you don't have any preconceived notion that you should be more polite or defer to one of those more than to the other, maybe they are just labels. Cultures and families are different. When they adopt words, they usually have meanings.

Perhaps I am missing something but how it the label here different than “cousin”?

by cm2187 5y ago

Perhaps I am missing something but how it the label here different than “cousin”?

It's a specific cousin. I have four cousins, three female and one male (Danish actually have different words for female and male cousins), this label can refer to only ONE of my four cousins.

vitus 5y ago
Right. To be more specific, this particular term conveys three things about the cousin: - relative age (this cousin is younger than you) - gender (this cousin is female) - and... an archaic notion of whether this cousin is related to you via a female blood relative (either your mother's sibling, or your father's sister).
- mrweasel 5y ago
  > an archaic notion Maybe it's just part of the language now, and it will sound weird if you don't make that distinction? English has similar issues, in that it has two words: girlfriend and boyfriend, which is a bit old fashion, especially when you come from a language that doesn't make that distinction. On the other hand, what would you replace those two words with?
  - vitus 5y ago
    I don't disagree here. I'm commenting that the terminology dates back to familial structures and housing arrangements that largely no longer exist. Hence, archaic (since it's a historical artifact). As alluded to by other commenters: in China, women would be "married out" such that they would live with their husbands' families. As a result, the notion of "younger sister from outside" versus "younger sister down the hall" arose. That distinction doesn't exist if the newlywed couple doesn't move in with either of their parents. ... On the note of your question: English also has husband/wife, widow/widower, fiancé/fiancée (okay those are technically French loanwords). In the husband/wife scenario, we might use "spouse". And I still find "partner" a bit odd when it's used to refer to heterosexual couples, even if it's perfectly applicable. Is the more specialized terminology entirely irrelevant in either case (English or Chinese)? No, it conveys more information. But there are certainly situations where it's just not applicable (e.g. if one or both entities identify as nonbinary). (and as an aside, it's a distinction that makes the language harder to learn with all of its nuances -- my father has no sisters, so I grew up assuming that it was just "which parent's side is the cousin on?")
- _dain_ 5y ago
  Why is it an "archaic notion"?
  - rocqua 5y ago
    Because matrilineal vs patrilineal descent doesn't matter much anymore in the modern (western) world.
    - _dain_ 5y ago
      But software doesn't exist solely in the western world, does it?
- nullc 5y ago
  > archaic notion of whether this cousin is related to you via a female blood relative (either your mother's sibling, or your father's sister). This is a "doesn't share your last name" relationship in a conventional western family structure.

dsr_ 5y ago

Generalized sufficiently, all of these words mean "relative". Consider the weakest relationship between words and thoughts: the words that you habitually use guide/reflect how you think of the world. If the social relationship of "elder brother's husband" is different for you than "younger wife's sister" in some generalizable way, then words like these are meaningful to you. If you don't have any preconceived notion that you should be more polite or defer to one of those more than to the other, maybe they are just labels. Cultures and families are different. When they adopt words, they usually have meanings.