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Worse, it totally delivered positive revenue to the Treasury, until the Bush Administration reforms changed its rate structure amd required insane future benefi

Worse, it totally delivered positive revenue to the Treasury, until the Bush Administration reforms changed its rate structure amd required insane future benefits be prepaid an excessively long time in advance.

SilasX 5y ago
You mean the same standard private corporations are required to do to prevent a repeat of “oh lol Bethlehem Steel underfunded your pension, you’re on your own now”?
- mindslight 5y ago
  To be fair, an honest bill would have switched the pension from defined benefit to defined contribution, like everywhere else that is forced to fully account for pensions.
  - ddingus 5y ago
    This too.
  - SilasX 5y ago
    That would work too, but even those with defined benefit plans are required to fund them at the present discounted rate, just as the postal service was. It's not an absurd condition, though I am happy to accept there's room for reasonable disagreement on the exact timetable for coming into compliance.
    - ddingus 5y ago
      So am I, and the big harm done here was the Bush Admin rate table reforms. Basically, the Post carries a ton of big publishing and other package traffic at a near loss, or flat out loss, with increases in letter rates and small scale package traffic intended to make up the difference. It didn't.
    - mindslight 5y ago
      What's absurd is that this accounting has been turned into a political talking point with useful idiots asserting the organization is broken because it's not turning a profit. Meanwhile the Department of War spends trillions every year and yet nobody compares it to an insolvent business, seemingly because the spending benefits those who define the popular talking points.
      - SilasX 5y ago
        Which would be a fine point to argue, “let’s take this back to a pure service model funded out of taxes”; but at some point they decided to make it self funding with some monopoly privileges (hence the gaudy signs they put up about not taking tax money) and as long as we’re going to stick with that decision, then yes, they need to recognize pension liabilities as liabilities and prefund them like any other corporation.
        mindslight 5y ago
        As a libertarian, I'd be 100% in favor of removing the prohibition on private parties competing with the USPS in exchange for the postal service being overtly subsidized. But since I recognize that that oligopolistic companies can be just as oppressive as de jure government (hence the small "l"), I can't see the ongoing political arc against the USPS as anything but an attempt by the private carriers to destroy the public institution such that they can better price gouge.
        ddingus 5y ago
        As one who leans left, I agree with you. >But since I recognize that that oligopolistic companies can be just as oppressive as de jure government (hence the small "l"), I can't see the ongoing political arc against the USPS as anything but an attempt by the private carriers to destroy the public institution such that they can better price gouge.
        ddingus 5y ago
        The post runs on postage, not taxes. It should run on postage, and should be able to expand its services
- ddingus 5y ago
  That burden could have been met at a far less aggressive initial cost. It is not like a private company where high level people make sure and pay themselves no matter what...
- ddingus 5y ago
  Secondly, had the original rate structure been left in place, the Post would have met that burden with ease. It has proven hard to do that and offer near giveaway services to big publishing and others contracting to cover gaps in service.
  - SilasX 5y ago
    Yes, if you're allowed to let employee compensation go unfunded, you can show a profit.
    - ddingus 5y ago
      No, that is not what I said. If you are allowed to charge rates appropriate to employee compensation, inclusive, then none of it is a problem. The rate structure, prior to the Bush Administration reforms, would have been more than up to the task, and by the way, would have reduced margins for private entities looking to profit more than they should reasonably by depending on the Post Office...
      - SilasX 5y ago
        Previously, they were allowed to leave pensions unfunded and just pay it out of future revenue, like Bethlehem Steel. Now they have to fund it like a private corporation would. Now the accounting books are correct.
        ddingus 5y ago
        Indeed. The key Point here though is the post office was set up to fail by the rate changes. The greater point is the management failures and abuse has are all about promoting private interests, not about running the post office as intended and necessary. And we the people suffer for all of that because we're seeing a great thing he created unnecessarily so that others can profit out of hand.
        SilasX 5y ago

SilasX 5y ago

You mean the same standard private corporations are required to do to prevent a repeat of “oh lol Bethlehem Steel underfunded your pension, you’re on your own now”?

mindslight 5y ago
To be fair, an honest bill would have switched the pension from defined benefit to defined contribution, like everywhere else that is forced to fully account for pensions.
- ddingus 5y ago
  This too.
- SilasX 5y ago
  That would work too, but even those with defined benefit plans are required to fund them at the present discounted rate, just as the postal service was. It's not an absurd condition, though I am happy to accept there's room for reasonable disagreement on the exact timetable for coming into compliance.
  - ddingus 5y ago
    So am I, and the big harm done here was the Bush Admin rate table reforms. Basically, the Post carries a ton of big publishing and other package traffic at a near loss, or flat out loss, with increases in letter rates and small scale package traffic intended to make up the difference. It didn't.
  - mindslight 5y ago
    What's absurd is that this accounting has been turned into a political talking point with useful idiots asserting the organization is broken because it's not turning a profit. Meanwhile the Department of War spends trillions every year and yet nobody compares it to an insolvent business, seemingly because the spending benefits those who define the popular talking points.
    - SilasX 5y ago
      Which would be a fine point to argue, “let’s take this back to a pure service model funded out of taxes”; but at some point they decided to make it self funding with some monopoly privileges (hence the gaudy signs they put up about not taking tax money) and as long as we’re going to stick with that decision, then yes, they need to recognize pension liabilities as liabilities and prefund them like any other corporation.
      - mindslight 5y ago
        As a libertarian, I'd be 100% in favor of removing the prohibition on private parties competing with the USPS in exchange for the postal service being overtly subsidized. But since I recognize that that oligopolistic companies can be just as oppressive as de jure government (hence the small "l"), I can't see the ongoing political arc against the USPS as anything but an attempt by the private carriers to destroy the public institution such that they can better price gouge.
        ddingus 5y ago
        As one who leans left, I agree with you. >But since I recognize that that oligopolistic companies can be just as oppressive as de jure government (hence the small "l"), I can't see the ongoing political arc against the USPS as anything but an attempt by the private carriers to destroy the public institution such that they can better price gouge.
      - ddingus 5y ago
        The post runs on postage, not taxes. It should run on postage, and should be able to expand its services
ddingus 5y ago
That burden could have been met at a far less aggressive initial cost. It is not like a private company where high level people make sure and pay themselves no matter what...
ddingus 5y ago
Secondly, had the original rate structure been left in place, the Post would have met that burden with ease. It has proven hard to do that and offer near giveaway services to big publishing and others contracting to cover gaps in service.
- SilasX 5y ago
  Yes, if you're allowed to let employee compensation go unfunded, you can show a profit.
  - ddingus 5y ago
    No, that is not what I said. If you are allowed to charge rates appropriate to employee compensation, inclusive, then none of it is a problem. The rate structure, prior to the Bush Administration reforms, would have been more than up to the task, and by the way, would have reduced margins for private entities looking to profit more than they should reasonably by depending on the Post Office...
    - SilasX 5y ago
      Previously, they were allowed to leave pensions unfunded and just pay it out of future revenue, like Bethlehem Steel. Now they have to fund it like a private corporation would. Now the accounting books are correct.
      - ddingus 5y ago
        Indeed. The key Point here though is the post office was set up to fail by the rate changes. The greater point is the management failures and abuse has are all about promoting private interests, not about running the post office as intended and necessary. And we the people suffer for all of that because we're seeing a great thing he created unnecessarily so that others can profit out of hand.
        SilasX 5y ago