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Guess what most private organizations actually contract last mile to the postal service, because it is not profitable to do deliver in heavily rural areas. The

Guess what most private organizations actually contract last mile to the postal service, because it is not profitable to do deliver in heavily rural areas. The postal service is a public good.

rsj_hn 5y ago
That many organizations contract the USPS to make deliveres for them does not make it a public good. Many organizations contract out payroll or lawn care as well, because they can't profitably do it themselves as well as another business that can do it more cost effectively. A public good is by definition one that is non-excludable and non-rival. * non-rival means that if one person uses the good, it does not prevent another user from using it. An example would be someone listening to a radio broadcast does not prevent someone else from doing that. The USPS is not a non-rival good because as more people use the USPS, it requires more resources to deliver the mail. Mail delivery is a rival good. * non-excludable means that you cannot prevent someone from using the good. An example of this would be a park without a fence around it, or the air you breathe, or a road without a toll, or the view of a beautiful mountain. The USPS is most definately excludable, as if you don't have the postage stamp the mail is not delivered. Of course the above fall along a spectrum. It might be feasible to encrypt the broadcast, making it an excludable good. It might not be economically feasible to prevent someone from using the road or enjoying a scenic view. So whether something is a public good depends as much on technology and cost effictiveness as anything else, it's not a characteristic of the good in isolation of the economy. Thus the invention of encryption made the airwaves a rival good and set off a renaissance of broadcast products from Satellite TV and Internet to pay-per-view broadcasts, something that was not possible when the technology didn't allow broadcasts to be excludable. But in our current world, with the technology of postage stamps well understood, it's clear that the USPS is not a public good.
- ddingus 5y ago
  It totally is. Fact is anti government interests have paid Congress to hobble the Post Office to encourage your point of view. Corruption, bribes, deliberate mismanagement and debt all have impacted the Post Office to make private carriers look better. It started with the Bush Administration and has gone on for decades.
  - erik_seaberg 5y ago
    No matter how good it might be for the general public, USPS doesn’t meet the definition of a “public good” as long as they require stamps and put more mailmen in trucks every year. The classic example is a lighthouse. It serves an unlimited number of sailors, but it’s hard to make them pay for it, which is a rationale for using tax money to build one and ignore the free rider problem.
    - ddingus 5y ago
      The Post has no free rider problems, and runs on postage. The service is the public good, and operating it where all are served equally (remember everyone can receive a package at no cost to them) is in the public interest. No private entity can, or even has a plan to do the same at anywhere close to the low cost and quality of service.
      - erik_seaberg 5y ago
        A public good isn’t paid for by users. That’s part of how economists define that term, and why they make theories about how and when someone else ought to. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_good_(economics) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_good_(economics)
        ddingus 5y ago
        See above. I am not making an entirely economic argument.
  - rsj_hn 5y ago
    My explaining basic definitions of words is not a "point of view", it's a basic fact. The meanings of words should not offend you. The definition of "public good" has no more to do with the Bush administration than the definition of "celsius" has to do with the Carter administration. The term "public good" is a term from economics and has a specific economic meaning. It's not a term like "demand" that was in circulation by non-economists and was given a specialist meaning, so there can be confusion by people who use "demand" in a non-specialist way. "public good" is term coined by economists, so if you are going to use it, you need to understand it. The word "good" here is meant as an object value (e.g. "goods and services") not as as moral claim. And the term "public" here does not mean "the public benefits from the good", but that the public as a whole cannot be prevented from benefiting from the good. Obviously the public benefits from all goods, otherwise they wouldn't be demanded by the public and they wouldn't have a positive price. But that is not what we are talking about here. You can learn about what public goods are in this article: https://sites.bu.edu/manove-ec101/files/2017/11/WikipediaPublicGoods171110.pdf https://sites.bu.edu/manove-ec101/files/2017/11/WikipediaPub...
- hinkley 5y ago
  Disingenuous. The companies they talk about are shipping companies. If your dentist contracts out landscaping, well of course they do. If your landscaping company contracts out landscaping to another company then it damn well does matter.

Guess what most private organizations actually contract last mile to the postal service, because it is not profitable to do deliver in heavily rural areas. The postal service is a public good.

rsj_hn 5y ago

That many organizations contract the USPS to make deliveres for them does not make it a public good. Many organizations contract out payroll or lawn care as well, because they can't profitably do it themselves as well as another business that can do it more cost effectively. A public good is by definition one that is non-excludable and non-rival. * non-rival means that if one person uses the good, it does not prevent another user from using it. An example would be someone listening to a radio broadcast does not prevent someone else from doing that. The USPS is not a non-rival good because as more people use the USPS, it requires more resources to deliver the mail. Mail delivery is a rival good. * non-excludable means that you cannot prevent someone from using the good. An example of this would be a park without a fence around it, or the air you breathe, or a road without a toll, or the view of a beautiful mountain. The USPS is most definately excludable, as if you don't have the postage stamp the mail is not delivered. Of course the above fall along a spectrum. It might be feasible to encrypt the broadcast, making it an excludable good. It might not be economically feasible to prevent someone from using the road or enjoying a scenic view. So whether something is a public good depends as much on technology and cost effictiveness as anything else, it's not a characteristic of the good in isolation of the economy. Thus the invention of encryption made the airwaves a rival good and set off a renaissance of broadcast products from Satellite TV and Internet to pay-per-view broadcasts, something that was not possible when the technology didn't allow broadcasts to be excludable. But in our current world, with the technology of postage stamps well understood, it's clear that the USPS is not a public good.

ddingus 5y ago
It totally is. Fact is anti government interests have paid Congress to hobble the Post Office to encourage your point of view. Corruption, bribes, deliberate mismanagement and debt all have impacted the Post Office to make private carriers look better. It started with the Bush Administration and has gone on for decades.
- erik_seaberg 5y ago
  No matter how good it might be for the general public, USPS doesn’t meet the definition of a “public good” as long as they require stamps and put more mailmen in trucks every year. The classic example is a lighthouse. It serves an unlimited number of sailors, but it’s hard to make them pay for it, which is a rationale for using tax money to build one and ignore the free rider problem.
  - ddingus 5y ago
    The Post has no free rider problems, and runs on postage. The service is the public good, and operating it where all are served equally (remember everyone can receive a package at no cost to them) is in the public interest. No private entity can, or even has a plan to do the same at anywhere close to the low cost and quality of service.
    - erik_seaberg 5y ago
      A public good isn’t paid for by users. That’s part of how economists define that term, and why they make theories about how and when someone else ought to. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_good_(economics) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_good_(economics)
      - ddingus 5y ago
        See above. I am not making an entirely economic argument.
- rsj_hn 5y ago
  My explaining basic definitions of words is not a "point of view", it's a basic fact. The meanings of words should not offend you. The definition of "public good" has no more to do with the Bush administration than the definition of "celsius" has to do with the Carter administration. The term "public good" is a term from economics and has a specific economic meaning. It's not a term like "demand" that was in circulation by non-economists and was given a specialist meaning, so there can be confusion by people who use "demand" in a non-specialist way. "public good" is term coined by economists, so if you are going to use it, you need to understand it. The word "good" here is meant as an object value (e.g. "goods and services") not as as moral claim. And the term "public" here does not mean "the public benefits from the good", but that the public as a whole cannot be prevented from benefiting from the good. Obviously the public benefits from all goods, otherwise they wouldn't be demanded by the public and they wouldn't have a positive price. But that is not what we are talking about here. You can learn about what public goods are in this article: https://sites.bu.edu/manove-ec101/files/2017/11/WikipediaPublicGoods171110.pdf https://sites.bu.edu/manove-ec101/files/2017/11/WikipediaPub...
hinkley 5y ago
Disingenuous. The companies they talk about are shipping companies. If your dentist contracts out landscaping, well of course they do. If your landscaping company contracts out landscaping to another company then it damn well does matter.