6 ms·

Yeah this video still haunts me(1). The cop was acquitted by jury, saying the victim, committed a misdemeanour by leaving the house without identification(2).

Yeah this video still haunts me(1). The cop was acquitted by jury, saying the victim, committed a misdemeanour by leaving the house without identification(2). They did win $1.75m in the end though so at least there is that. (1) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_SSGa7-6BQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_SSGa7-6BQ (2) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sureshbhai_Patel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sureshbhai_Patel

whiddershins 5y ago
That Wikipedia article is almost certainly inaccurate. I would need much stronger evidence than a link to photographyisnotacrime to be convinced that not having id when walking around is even a citation, much less a misdemeanor anywhere in the US. Much more likely someone got their wires crossed in hearing the detail of the story.
- papercrane 5y ago
  It's accurate, it's misdemeanor for a permanent resident to not carry ID in public. https://www.al.com/news/2016/01/judge_throws_out_case_against.html https://www.al.com/news/2016/01/judge_throws_out_case_agains...
- magicalist 5y ago
  > I would need much stronger evidence than a link to photographyisnotacrime to be convinced that not having id when walking around is even a citation, much less a misdemeanor anywhere in the US. Or just do a basic search. If you're a green card holder it's a misdemeanor to be without your id.
  - DaiPlusPlus 5y ago
    As an LPR myself, this is true. I keep mine in my wallet. It is handy as a secondary backup identity card when (for whatever reason) I don't have my drivers license on me. (PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong!) I understand there are some weird situations you can be in though (caused by poorly written legislation), for example, not having your LPR Green Card is a *strict liability* federal misdemeanor, without any exceptions or legislated consideration if someone stole your card off you, or even if the card was confiscated by a federal or state/local official. So you could be stopped by a cop, who asks for your Id and confiscates your GC, and then immediately charges you for not being in possession of your GC. However I gather that this has never been tested in court, but it's still an unpleasant possibility. ...and if you lose it, that's $600 (!!!!) to renew it, which means having to go to your nearest USCIS building in-person (which can be hundreds of miles away) to have your fingerprints and other biometrics re-taken - I don't know why but USCIS simply won't re-print an existing GC unlike how WA's DoL has been re-issuing my drivers' license using the exact same biometrics and other info unchanged from almost a decade ago... it still says I weight 140lbs (lol... I'm 90kg now, ugh). And you're on-the-hook for that $600 regardless of the reason for reissuing it: whether it was your fault or not (though if it was someone else's fault I guess you could file a civil claim for damages at least) LPR rights are not exactly high on the priority list - but the law should be changed to not require us to carry the GC; and misplacing a GC (or being the victim of a crime of GC theft) should certainly not cost $600 and a half-day spent at a (depressing) USCIS building every time. It's super-absurd: I understand the "must carry" rule also applies to children: so rambunctious kindergarten kids too young to even tie their own shoelaces need to carry a $600 hologram of past presidents' heads. Surely there must be some way this is an unreasonable burden or maybe even unconstitutional because of the power-imbalance it introduces? ------ ...also I could be horribly misinformed about all of the above.
  - naniwaduni 5y ago
    "If you're a green card holder" is a pretty big caveat to be leaving out! Suddenly the framing of the crime is less "walking around without ID" and more "being a foreigner who can't produce documentation of legal presence". Both are shitty situations, but do you see how much more surprising it is to hear that a court will uphold the criminality of something that everyone seems to do all the time with no consquences, than that there's apparently no political will to fix what amounts to, on the happy path, a trivial inconvenience for a small class of politically unpopular noncitizens?
    - magicalist 5y ago
      > Both are shitty situations, but do you see how much more surprising it is to hear that a court will uphold the criminality of something that everyone seems to do all the time with no consquences The court didn't "uphold the criminality" of anything because Patel was never charged with anything, and the cop had no idea he was a foreigner when he partially paralyzed the man by throwing him into the ground. And the court definitely didn't uphold the criminality of the police officer's behavior, where apparently "strong though disputed evidence that he jerked his arm" is sufficient license for the cop to then do whatever he wants. > there's apparently no political will to fix what amounts to, on the happy path, a trivial inconvenience for a small class of politically unpopular noncitizens? I'm assuming the assault by a police officer and the complete lack of recourse aren't the trivial inconveniences you're referring to?

whiddershins 5y ago

That Wikipedia article is almost certainly inaccurate. I would need much stronger evidence than a link to photographyisnotacrime to be convinced that not having id when walking around is even a citation, much less a misdemeanor anywhere in the US. Much more likely someone got their wires crossed in hearing the detail of the story.

papercrane 5y ago
It's accurate, it's misdemeanor for a permanent resident to not carry ID in public. https://www.al.com/news/2016/01/judge_throws_out_case_against.html https://www.al.com/news/2016/01/judge_throws_out_case_agains...
magicalist 5y ago
> I would need much stronger evidence than a link to photographyisnotacrime to be convinced that not having id when walking around is even a citation, much less a misdemeanor anywhere in the US. Or just do a basic search. If you're a green card holder it's a misdemeanor to be without your id.
- DaiPlusPlus 5y ago
  As an LPR myself, this is true. I keep mine in my wallet. It is handy as a secondary backup identity card when (for whatever reason) I don't have my drivers license on me. (PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong!) I understand there are some weird situations you can be in though (caused by poorly written legislation), for example, not having your LPR Green Card is a *strict liability* federal misdemeanor, without any exceptions or legislated consideration if someone stole your card off you, or even if the card was confiscated by a federal or state/local official. So you could be stopped by a cop, who asks for your Id and confiscates your GC, and then immediately charges you for not being in possession of your GC. However I gather that this has never been tested in court, but it's still an unpleasant possibility. ...and if you lose it, that's $600 (!!!!) to renew it, which means having to go to your nearest USCIS building in-person (which can be hundreds of miles away) to have your fingerprints and other biometrics re-taken - I don't know why but USCIS simply won't re-print an existing GC unlike how WA's DoL has been re-issuing my drivers' license using the exact same biometrics and other info unchanged from almost a decade ago... it still says I weight 140lbs (lol... I'm 90kg now, ugh). And you're on-the-hook for that $600 regardless of the reason for reissuing it: whether it was your fault or not (though if it was someone else's fault I guess you could file a civil claim for damages at least) LPR rights are not exactly high on the priority list - but the law should be changed to not require us to carry the GC; and misplacing a GC (or being the victim of a crime of GC theft) should certainly not cost $600 and a half-day spent at a (depressing) USCIS building every time. It's super-absurd: I understand the "must carry" rule also applies to children: so rambunctious kindergarten kids too young to even tie their own shoelaces need to carry a $600 hologram of past presidents' heads. Surely there must be some way this is an unreasonable burden or maybe even unconstitutional because of the power-imbalance it introduces? ------ ...also I could be horribly misinformed about all of the above.
- naniwaduni 5y ago
  "If you're a green card holder" is a pretty big caveat to be leaving out! Suddenly the framing of the crime is less "walking around without ID" and more "being a foreigner who can't produce documentation of legal presence". Both are shitty situations, but do you see how much more surprising it is to hear that a court will uphold the criminality of something that everyone seems to do all the time with no consquences, than that there's apparently no political will to fix what amounts to, on the happy path, a trivial inconvenience for a small class of politically unpopular noncitizens?
  - magicalist 5y ago
    > Both are shitty situations, but do you see how much more surprising it is to hear that a court will uphold the criminality of something that everyone seems to do all the time with no consquences The court didn't "uphold the criminality" of anything because Patel was never charged with anything, and the cop had no idea he was a foreigner when he partially paralyzed the man by throwing him into the ground. And the court definitely didn't uphold the criminality of the police officer's behavior, where apparently "strong though disputed evidence that he jerked his arm" is sufficient license for the cop to then do whatever he wants. > there's apparently no political will to fix what amounts to, on the happy path, a trivial inconvenience for a small class of politically unpopular noncitizens? I'm assuming the assault by a police officer and the complete lack of recourse aren't the trivial inconveniences you're referring to?