4 ms·

Why does Craigslist censor rental postings containing gender keywords

12 points by hui-zheng 5y ago

One my friend wanted to post a rental listing last week on craigslist. In it, there is a description like this: "One of the rooms is rented to a 4th-year male student, and we look for a respectful tenant to rent the other room." however, the system doesn't allow the posting to be published, citing the reason that the keyword "male" is used. It's an automatic block. No human review or flagging. It seems craigslist blocks rental posting with gender keyword regardless of the intention of the word's usage. Why does Craigslist does that? Is it to comply with some law? or is it because of some potential legal liability as the host of classified advertisements? Is it a technical reason?

osivertsson 5y ago
In my opinion it keeps listings looking more professional. Should gender matter here? Use of gender probably also invites bad actors that leads to a disproportionate amount of support work.
- josephcsible 5y ago
  > Should gender matter here? Isn't it common and normal for women to not want to live with men they don't know?
  - robbedpeter 5y ago
    A guy also may not feel comfortable with women he doesn't know. There's less possibility for drama of certain types if roommates are the same gender. There are more risks for women, but knowing the gender of strangers you might room with is a risk minimization heuristic. Craigslist just used a low effort filter to prevent a large number of potentially illegal listings from ever being posted. Saves their moderators from wasting time on idiots. Even if it wastes a bunch of the end user's time, it doesn't cost CL as much to handle complaints as it would handling legal fees.
    - hui-zheng 5y ago
      that's what I am curious. I think maybe the website viewers flagging is not sufficient to prevent the illegal listings. I am curious if anyone knows how the moderators and end-user flagging works and how effective they are in a website at such a scale.
- hui-zheng 5y ago
  If you think about it more. it does. if the landlord can not provide the gender of the tenant who already living there, they ended up receiving so many inquiries and calls from women from who one of the very first questions is "Is the tenant living there a girl or guy?" Then the landlord has to reply "he is a guy." and then they walk away. It's a waste of everyone's time and effort.
- hui-zheng 5y ago
  > Use of gender probably also invites bad actors that leads to a disproportionate amount of support work. could you elaborate more how this listing might more likely to lead to bad actors?
Trias11 5y ago
Craigslist got infected with wokeness
- newman8r 5y ago
  not really, they're just trying to avoid headaches with illegal listings.
  - josephcsible 5y ago
    I thought the whole point of Section 230's existence was that sites wouldn't have to do hamfisted automatic moderation like this to avoid legal liability.
    - newman8r 5y ago
      Even if they're not legally liable, my guess is they were spending a non-trivial amount of time on the issue, including dealing with complaints.
  - hui-zheng 5y ago
    I also think they might just trying to avoid headaches with illegal listings. I think maybe the human flagging is not sufficient to prevent illegal listings?
jepler 5y ago
The Fair Housing Act: Title VIII of the Civil Rights Act of 1968 (Fair Housing Act), as amended, prohibits discrimination in the sale, rental, and financing of dwellings, and in other housing-related transactions, based on race, color, national origin, religion, sex, familial status (including children under the age of 18 living with parents or legal custodians, pregnant women, and people securing custody of children under the age of 18), and handicap (disability) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_of_Fair_Housing_and_Equal_Opportunity#Fair_Housing_Laws https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_of_Fair_Housing_and_Equ...]
- hui-zheng 5y ago
  yes, i know that's law. Do you think this listing above are discriminating any gender? if you read the wordings carefully, it is describing the gender of the other person living there, just to give more information about the place. it does not demand the gender of rental candidates.
  - sushid 5y ago
    The simple explanation is that CL probably uses a blocklist as opposed to an in-house NLP algorithm that understands the specific context in which the Fair Housing Act is not being violated.
    - hellojesus 5y ago
      Why is it Craigslist's burden to enforce the law? Presumably, if some law were being violated a potential renter could sue, no?
- josephcsible 5y ago
  The post was just trying to say who currently lives there, not who's allowed to, and even if it were trying to say who's allowed to, the Fair Housing Act has an exception that allows sex discrimination when a unit has multiple tenants.
- rsj_hn 5y ago
  The Fair Housing Act does not apply to roommates or when you sublet someone living in your own home (which you will continue to occupy), and this posting appears to be an example of that. The shared housing market is something that a lot of craigslist ads target. For more information about this, see https://fairhousing.foxrothschild.com/2012/03/articles/fha-basics/are-rental-roommates-covered-under-the-fha/ https://fairhousing.foxrothschild.com/2012/03/articles/fha-b...
CheezeIt 5y ago
Are you doing rooms/shared or apartments? They might have a different filter.
- hui-zheng 5y ago
  it's not. the landlord is just to post the listing to find a tenant who will share the space with another person. also, this listing only describes the gender of the person who already living there. it doesn't demand or state any preference on the sex of the new tenant.
  - CheezeIt 5y ago
    What I mean is, the Craigslist section for rooms/shared might allow the word “male” while it’s prohibited in other rental categories. But maybe it’s harsher if the user makes multiple postings, if something like that distinguishes landlords from renters.
dredmorbius 5y ago
CL follows US Fair Housing law for US listings. They may treat roommate vs. full-rental listings differently, see: Shared Housing Exemption -- If you are advertising a shared housing unit, in which tenants will be sharing a bathroom, kitchen, or other common area, you may express a preference based upon sex only. https://www.craigslist.org/about/FHA#roommates https://www.craigslist.org/about/FHA#roommates It may help to post to rooms and shares specifically. You may get more appropriate feedback through CL's own support forums (moniored by staff: https://forums.craigslist.org/?areaID=11&forumID=9 https://forums.craigslist.org/?areaID=11&forumID=9 Community housing discussion (user-discussion): https://forums.craigslist.org/?areaID=11&forumID=6 https://forums.craigslist.org/?areaID=11&forumID=6
- hui-zheng 5y ago
  this listing doesn't express a preference based upon sex. it only describes the gender of the other person living there, just to give more information about the place. it does not demand the gender of rental candidates. Is there laws that prohibit providing details about the gender of the people living in the place?
  - dredmorbius 5y ago
    You asked for what the reason was. Several people have told you the reason. They've pointed you at the specific law and CL guidance in quesion. It seems you simply don't like the answer. I'm afraid we're unable to help you with that particular problem.
    - hui-zheng 5y ago
      As I and some other commenters explained, I don't think the law and CL guidance you provided are applicable to this listing. but thanks anyway. I think it's more likely that craigslist just don't want to deal with liability or something, so they just censor all postings with gender keywords, including those that doesn't violate law and CL guidance.
01jonny01 5y ago
Yeh we noticed the same thing, facebook and offerup do not have this issue. It maybe that craigslist has turned incredible woke and dismissed the idea of gender lol. I suggest you use a site like https://allcraigslistsearch.com https://allcraigslistsearch.com to find an ad that is live and has a catchy title that you can copy.
kody 5y ago
I assume it's to dissuade creepy ads that offer rent discounts based on sex/age/appearance.

12 points by hui-zheng 5y ago

osivertsson 5y ago

In my opinion it keeps listings looking more professional. Should gender matter here? Use of gender probably also invites bad actors that leads to a disproportionate amount of support work.

josephcsible 5y ago
> Should gender matter here? Isn't it common and normal for women to not want to live with men they don't know?
- robbedpeter 5y ago
  A guy also may not feel comfortable with women he doesn't know. There's less possibility for drama of certain types if roommates are the same gender. There are more risks for women, but knowing the gender of strangers you might room with is a risk minimization heuristic. Craigslist just used a low effort filter to prevent a large number of potentially illegal listings from ever being posted. Saves their moderators from wasting time on idiots. Even if it wastes a bunch of the end user's time, it doesn't cost CL as much to handle complaints as it would handling legal fees.
  - hui-zheng 5y ago
    that's what I am curious. I think maybe the website viewers flagging is not sufficient to prevent the illegal listings. I am curious if anyone knows how the moderators and end-user flagging works and how effective they are in a website at such a scale.
hui-zheng 5y ago
If you think about it more. it does. if the landlord can not provide the gender of the tenant who already living there, they ended up receiving so many inquiries and calls from women from who one of the very first questions is "Is the tenant living there a girl or guy?" Then the landlord has to reply "he is a guy." and then they walk away. It's a waste of everyone's time and effort.
hui-zheng 5y ago
> Use of gender probably also invites bad actors that leads to a disproportionate amount of support work. could you elaborate more how this listing might more likely to lead to bad actors?

Trias11 5y ago

Craigslist got infected with wokeness

newman8r 5y ago
not really, they're just trying to avoid headaches with illegal listings.
- josephcsible 5y ago
  I thought the whole point of Section 230's existence was that sites wouldn't have to do hamfisted automatic moderation like this to avoid legal liability.
  - newman8r 5y ago
    Even if they're not legally liable, my guess is they were spending a non-trivial amount of time on the issue, including dealing with complaints.
- hui-zheng 5y ago
  I also think they might just trying to avoid headaches with illegal listings. I think maybe the human flagging is not sufficient to prevent illegal listings?

jepler 5y ago

The Fair Housing Act: Title VIII of the Civil Rights Act of 1968 (Fair Housing Act), as amended, prohibits discrimination in the sale, rental, and financing of dwellings, and in other housing-related transactions, based on race, color, national origin, religion, sex, familial status (including children under the age of 18 living with parents or legal custodians, pregnant women, and people securing custody of children under the age of 18), and handicap (disability) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_of_Fair_Housing_and_Equal_Opportunity#Fair_Housing_Laws https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_of_Fair_Housing_and_Equ...]

hui-zheng 5y ago
yes, i know that's law. Do you think this listing above are discriminating any gender? if you read the wordings carefully, it is describing the gender of the other person living there, just to give more information about the place. it does not demand the gender of rental candidates.
- sushid 5y ago
  The simple explanation is that CL probably uses a blocklist as opposed to an in-house NLP algorithm that understands the specific context in which the Fair Housing Act is not being violated.
  - hellojesus 5y ago
    Why is it Craigslist's burden to enforce the law? Presumably, if some law were being violated a potential renter could sue, no?
josephcsible 5y ago
The post was just trying to say who currently lives there, not who's allowed to, and even if it were trying to say who's allowed to, the Fair Housing Act has an exception that allows sex discrimination when a unit has multiple tenants.
rsj_hn 5y ago
The Fair Housing Act does not apply to roommates or when you sublet someone living in your own home (which you will continue to occupy), and this posting appears to be an example of that. The shared housing market is something that a lot of craigslist ads target. For more information about this, see https://fairhousing.foxrothschild.com/2012/03/articles/fha-basics/are-rental-roommates-covered-under-the-fha/ https://fairhousing.foxrothschild.com/2012/03/articles/fha-b...

CheezeIt 5y ago

Are you doing rooms/shared or apartments? They might have a different filter.

hui-zheng 5y ago
it's not. the landlord is just to post the listing to find a tenant who will share the space with another person. also, this listing only describes the gender of the person who already living there. it doesn't demand or state any preference on the sex of the new tenant.
- CheezeIt 5y ago
  What I mean is, the Craigslist section for rooms/shared might allow the word “male” while it’s prohibited in other rental categories. But maybe it’s harsher if the user makes multiple postings, if something like that distinguishes landlords from renters.

dredmorbius 5y ago

CL follows US Fair Housing law for US listings. They may treat roommate vs. full-rental listings differently, see: Shared Housing Exemption -- If you are advertising a shared housing unit, in which tenants will be sharing a bathroom, kitchen, or other common area, you may express a preference based upon sex only. https://www.craigslist.org/about/FHA#roommates https://www.craigslist.org/about/FHA#roommates It may help to post to rooms and shares specifically. You may get more appropriate feedback through CL's own support forums (moniored by staff: https://forums.craigslist.org/?areaID=11&forumID=9 https://forums.craigslist.org/?areaID=11&forumID=9 Community housing discussion (user-discussion): https://forums.craigslist.org/?areaID=11&forumID=6 https://forums.craigslist.org/?areaID=11&forumID=6

hui-zheng 5y ago
this listing doesn't express a preference based upon sex. it only describes the gender of the other person living there, just to give more information about the place. it does not demand the gender of rental candidates. Is there laws that prohibit providing details about the gender of the people living in the place?
- dredmorbius 5y ago
  You asked for what the reason was. Several people have told you the reason. They've pointed you at the specific law and CL guidance in quesion. It seems you simply don't like the answer. I'm afraid we're unable to help you with that particular problem.
  - hui-zheng 5y ago
    As I and some other commenters explained, I don't think the law and CL guidance you provided are applicable to this listing. but thanks anyway. I think it's more likely that craigslist just don't want to deal with liability or something, so they just censor all postings with gender keywords, including those that doesn't violate law and CL guidance.

01jonny01 5y ago

Yeh we noticed the same thing, facebook and offerup do not have this issue. It maybe that craigslist has turned incredible woke and dismissed the idea of gender lol. I suggest you use a site like https://allcraigslistsearch.com https://allcraigslistsearch.com to find an ad that is live and has a catchy title that you can copy.

kody 5y ago

I assume it's to dissuade creepy ads that offer rent discounts based on sex/age/appearance.