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>One of the worst things we did in the past century is paint the idea of an apartment high rise full of decent sized family apartments overlooking a green shady

>One of the worst things we did in the past century is paint the idea of an apartment high rise full of decent sized family apartments overlooking a green shady courtyard as some communist evil, to be actively outlawed. How many large apartment blocs have you lived in? It's not a very enjoyable way to live, particularly with a family. People want houses, garages, yards, and cars. Don't try to paint the selfish reality of human nature as being corrupted by some propagandistic force against collectivism.

jchanimal 5y ago
How many are constructed to be desirable? Would a nice apartment complex be legal in most jurisdictions? Luckily, the First Nations in Vancouver don't have to worry about NIMBYs, so they can show us a good example: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-senakw-in-vancouver-the-squamish-nation-shapes-a-sustainable-village/ https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-senakw-in-van...
- ramesh31 5y ago
  20th century history is littered with these types of developments [0]. They all turn out the same way. Decrepit and abandoned within 20 years. No one wants to live like that. Living your life in a 30th story studio apartment is a dystopian nightmare. You are completely disconnected from your environment, and daily needs like grocery shopping, package deliveries, buying furniture, all become herculean tasks. It's why these places very quickly become slums. The only people willing to live like that are those with no other choice. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2015/apr/22/pruitt-igoe-high-rise-urban-america-history-cities https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2015/apr/22/pruitt-igoe-h...
  - javagram 5y ago
    Your link is to a public housing project. It discusses the reasons why it became a slum, such as white flight and desegregation. Not sure if you have ever lived in an apartment if you think grocery shopping is a “Herculean” task. You just take the elevator and walk a block or two to the grocery store. Furniture is actually easier than in a SFH because you don’t have to struggle to move it up stairs, you just pop it in an elevator. Package deliveries go to a concierge at the front desk rather than being stolen or getting wet on the porch if you’re not home, etc. In general looking at trends of the 1960s to predict behavior today won’t work - there’s been a trend toward reurbanization in the last 30 years and white flight has reversed and been replaced with gentrification. The “slums” are now being pushed into city outskirts and suburbs themselves.
    - rsj_hn 5y ago
      Personally, I do see a relationship between crime and people fleeing the cities, for obvious reasons. What is concerning is the increase in homicide rates combined with an epidemic of DAs that refuse to prosecute crimes, all against a backdrop of remote work making outmigration much easier. That may well reverse the gentrification trend and we could see a repeat of the 1970s-1980s.
davidw 5y ago
I would like a large house with a huge yard right in the middle of a lot of amenities. And a pony. The reality is that land in desirable areas is scarce, so people ought to be free to choose the tradeoffs they prefer. In Italy, my family and I actually did live in a home in a 6 unit building and it was just fine. 3 bedroom, 2 bath. Rather than the yard, the kids would go over to the local park, where they'd actually find other kids to play with, which is way more important to kids than the big yard in the house we rent here in the US.
LeifCarrotson 5y ago
I've lived in three large apartment blocs. None were decent sized family apartments overlooking a green shady courtyard. They were all cramped 2-bedroom units overlooking shopping malls, designed for people who didn't want to buy a house in the suburban sprawl around my Midwestern city. The courtyards were decrepit and unmaintained, the only nice green spaces had 'keep off the grass' signs. Obviously no one wants that, it worked as a college student and a newlywed but when we started a family I did, indeed, buy a house. But not because I actually wanted a house, because I wanted something other than the crappy apartments that were in my local market. My parents recently bought a condo - it's in a green, forested neighborhood in some quiet residential streets, they have a two-car garage, they have four bedrooms - theirs, spare upstairs, office, one downstairs for visiting grandkids, storage space downstairs, upstairs they have a living room, dining room, and large kitchen. Theirs is a duplex, a few of the units in the neighborhood are larger quad-unit townhomes. As relatively wealthy seniors, they were able to buy that outright. But nothing like that (except regular homes) is available to rent within several hundred miles, as far as I know. Nice apartments are just not a thing that we build, in part because culturally, "nice apartments" is an oxymoron.
- bserge 5y ago
  So it's a self fulfilling prophecy. Bad design, no maintenance, no park, no sidewalks - apartment building are shit.
asdff 5y ago
I lived in one about three years ago and it was full of children and families. It was constructed in the 1960s so it still had a few larger units. The grounds were recently renovated, so the children had an astroturf half length soccer field, a new playground area, a basketball court, a tennis court, and two pools and jacuzzis on each end of the property. The kids ran around the grounds absolutely amok with their little kick scooters unsupervised since the entire property was gated and patrolled by a security guard. I always thought living like that all year jumping into the pool with your friends every day must be a wonderful childhood. Probably nice for the parents being able to kick back and let the kids run anywhere within the property knowing its pretty safe.

jchanimal 5y ago

How many are constructed to be desirable? Would a nice apartment complex be legal in most jurisdictions? Luckily, the First Nations in Vancouver don't have to worry about NIMBYs, so they can show us a good example: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-senakw-in-vancouver-the-squamish-nation-shapes-a-sustainable-village/ https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-senakw-in-van...

ramesh31 5y ago
20th century history is littered with these types of developments [0]. They all turn out the same way. Decrepit and abandoned within 20 years. No one wants to live like that. Living your life in a 30th story studio apartment is a dystopian nightmare. You are completely disconnected from your environment, and daily needs like grocery shopping, package deliveries, buying furniture, all become herculean tasks. It's why these places very quickly become slums. The only people willing to live like that are those with no other choice. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2015/apr/22/pruitt-igoe-high-rise-urban-america-history-cities https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2015/apr/22/pruitt-igoe-h...
- javagram 5y ago
  Your link is to a public housing project. It discusses the reasons why it became a slum, such as white flight and desegregation. Not sure if you have ever lived in an apartment if you think grocery shopping is a “Herculean” task. You just take the elevator and walk a block or two to the grocery store. Furniture is actually easier than in a SFH because you don’t have to struggle to move it up stairs, you just pop it in an elevator. Package deliveries go to a concierge at the front desk rather than being stolen or getting wet on the porch if you’re not home, etc. In general looking at trends of the 1960s to predict behavior today won’t work - there’s been a trend toward reurbanization in the last 30 years and white flight has reversed and been replaced with gentrification. The “slums” are now being pushed into city outskirts and suburbs themselves.
  - rsj_hn 5y ago
    Personally, I do see a relationship between crime and people fleeing the cities, for obvious reasons. What is concerning is the increase in homicide rates combined with an epidemic of DAs that refuse to prosecute crimes, all against a backdrop of remote work making outmigration much easier. That may well reverse the gentrification trend and we could see a repeat of the 1970s-1980s.

davidw 5y ago

I would like a large house with a huge yard right in the middle of a lot of amenities. And a pony. The reality is that land in desirable areas is scarce, so people ought to be free to choose the tradeoffs they prefer. In Italy, my family and I actually did live in a home in a 6 unit building and it was just fine. 3 bedroom, 2 bath. Rather than the yard, the kids would go over to the local park, where they'd actually find other kids to play with, which is way more important to kids than the big yard in the house we rent here in the US.

LeifCarrotson 5y ago

I've lived in three large apartment blocs. None were decent sized family apartments overlooking a green shady courtyard. They were all cramped 2-bedroom units overlooking shopping malls, designed for people who didn't want to buy a house in the suburban sprawl around my Midwestern city. The courtyards were decrepit and unmaintained, the only nice green spaces had 'keep off the grass' signs. Obviously no one wants that, it worked as a college student and a newlywed but when we started a family I did, indeed, buy a house. But not because I actually wanted a house, because I wanted something other than the crappy apartments that were in my local market. My parents recently bought a condo - it's in a green, forested neighborhood in some quiet residential streets, they have a two-car garage, they have four bedrooms - theirs, spare upstairs, office, one downstairs for visiting grandkids, storage space downstairs, upstairs they have a living room, dining room, and large kitchen. Theirs is a duplex, a few of the units in the neighborhood are larger quad-unit townhomes. As relatively wealthy seniors, they were able to buy that outright. But nothing like that (except regular homes) is available to rent within several hundred miles, as far as I know. Nice apartments are just not a thing that we build, in part because culturally, "nice apartments" is an oxymoron.

bserge 5y ago
So it's a self fulfilling prophecy. Bad design, no maintenance, no park, no sidewalks - apartment building are shit.

asdff 5y ago

I lived in one about three years ago and it was full of children and families. It was constructed in the 1960s so it still had a few larger units. The grounds were recently renovated, so the children had an astroturf half length soccer field, a new playground area, a basketball court, a tennis court, and two pools and jacuzzis on each end of the property. The kids ran around the grounds absolutely amok with their little kick scooters unsupervised since the entire property was gated and patrolled by a security guard. I always thought living like that all year jumping into the pool with your friends every day must be a wonderful childhood. Probably nice for the parents being able to kick back and let the kids run anywhere within the property knowing its pretty safe.