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It is super interesting to me that they now have essentially a declarative API in CloudFormation and now this corresponding imperative version with the same for

It is super interesting to me that they now have essentially a declarative API in CloudFormation and now this corresponding imperative version with the same format. I'm not quite sure why you would need the imperative version. Anyone have any ideas? Couldn't Pulumi have just compiled their code into CloudFormation and deployed it?

rhooke 5y ago
Imperative version can fill more dynamic use cases, like spinning up entire servers in response to something (eg user wants to create a game server at the click of a button). Not something you can easily do with the declarative version.
- spullara 5y ago
  That new game server could just be another cloudformation stack but I get your point.
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > Not something you can easily do with the declarative version. Its something that you can do easily with the imperative API for CloudFormation plus the declarative description of the stacks in CloudFormation.
lukehoban 5y ago
CloudFormation is really three separate things rolled up into one: (1) a resource model for AWS, (2) a deployment orchestration engine and (3) a syntax for specifying desired state as CloudFormation templates. Tools that compile to CloudFormation templates offer a way to access (2) directly - to use alternative front-end syntaxes but to still deploy via the CloudFormation orchestration engine. Tools like Pulumi (and Terraform) have their own deployment orchestration engines, which we believe offer many benefits - performance, secrets, components, transformations, aliases/refactoring, multi-cloud provisioning, and a lot more. Cloud Control API lets us (and others like us) access (1) directly, without having to use (2) or (3), and thus being able to still offer the full set of benefits of provisioning via Pulumi, along with the full set of benefits of a well-defined AWS resource model.
- joeduffy 5y ago
  As a concrete example of what this enables, the Pulumi Automation API lets you embed IaC straight into a bigger program. Folks have used this to create infrastructure-oriented SaaS products, self-service portals, and new higher level abstraction frameworks and tools, for instance, often spanning multiple cloud resource types (AWS, Azure, Kubernetes, Cloudflare, others) -- https://www.pulumi.com/automation/ https://www.pulumi.com/automation/. Transpiling to YAML and handing it over to CloudFormation is clumsy and wouldn't work for these cases among others.

rhooke 5y ago

Imperative version can fill more dynamic use cases, like spinning up entire servers in response to something (eg user wants to create a game server at the click of a button). Not something you can easily do with the declarative version.

spullara 5y ago
That new game server could just be another cloudformation stack but I get your point.
dragonwriter 5y ago
> Not something you can easily do with the declarative version. Its something that you can do easily with the imperative API for CloudFormation plus the declarative description of the stacks in CloudFormation.

lukehoban 5y ago

CloudFormation is really three separate things rolled up into one: (1) a resource model for AWS, (2) a deployment orchestration engine and (3) a syntax for specifying desired state as CloudFormation templates. Tools that compile to CloudFormation templates offer a way to access (2) directly - to use alternative front-end syntaxes but to still deploy via the CloudFormation orchestration engine. Tools like Pulumi (and Terraform) have their own deployment orchestration engines, which we believe offer many benefits - performance, secrets, components, transformations, aliases/refactoring, multi-cloud provisioning, and a lot more. Cloud Control API lets us (and others like us) access (1) directly, without having to use (2) or (3), and thus being able to still offer the full set of benefits of provisioning via Pulumi, along with the full set of benefits of a well-defined AWS resource model.

joeduffy 5y ago
As a concrete example of what this enables, the Pulumi Automation API lets you embed IaC straight into a bigger program. Folks have used this to create infrastructure-oriented SaaS products, self-service portals, and new higher level abstraction frameworks and tools, for instance, often spanning multiple cloud resource types (AWS, Azure, Kubernetes, Cloudflare, others) -- https://www.pulumi.com/automation/ https://www.pulumi.com/automation/. Transpiling to YAML and handing it over to CloudFormation is clumsy and wouldn't work for these cases among others.