5 ms·

until the first pedestrian gets killed...

peter422 5y ago
>10 pedestrians are killed each year by human drivers in SF, and almost exclusively they are the drivers fault (not only by definition, but also based on an impartial assessment of the situations). People will not care, and I also do not think these automated cars are going to kill any pedestrians anyways.
- aidenn0 5y ago
  When a human kills someone "that's a bad driver, take away their license" when a machine kills someone "that's a bad machine, ban it"
- AnimalMuppet 5y ago
  If you're setting the over-under at 0.5, I'll take the over...
- DamnYuppie 5y ago
  Agreed most people will not care. The legacy auto manufacturers and their mainstream media lap dogs will jump all over it. There will be an outpouring of fabricated outrage. It is all so predictable I want to puke.
  - jjulius 5y ago
    Take a deep breathe, you're going to be OK.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  - wutbrodo 5y ago
    The legacy manufacturers are pretty invested in the self-driving space at this point though, no? Cruise itself is owned by Honda and GM, among others. I believe waymo has similar investors. I think we'll see a situation more like nicotine vapes. Instead of trying to crush the industry, big cigarette manufacturers just bought them.
    - jimmydorry 5y ago
      Invested to not fall behind. They will snipe at their opponents, and I don’t doubt they would do the numbers on torpedoing their own solution if it meant wiping the field clean. Long-term, self-driving cars taking will mean less cars sold to consumers. Between ride-sharing, commercial operations, etc. the end goal will be less cars on roads.
  - amznthrwaway 5y ago
    You “want to puke” because of a response to a problem, where you’re simply imagining both the problem _and_ the response? Calm down.
- ajsnigrutin 5y ago
  > People will not care I don't believe that. One pregnant woman gets hi, and she and her unborn child die, and there will be so much anger and pressure on the politcians, everything will get outlawed. Human drivers are individuals... John Doe killed someone, blame John Doe. Autonomous car kills someone, blame all autonomous cars!
  - vmception 5y ago
    Consensus is a gradient, and representative consensus is multiple gradients.
    - oblio 5y ago
      Techies are a very narrow band in any of these gradients. Regular people are very wide bands, and there's a reason horror sci-fi movies where robots kill humankind are extremely popular.
      - gfodor 5y ago
        You're both right and wrong at the same time. The media gets to decide, as always, what we're collectively outraged about. Or to be more specific, the people who control the media. So if you want to predict if people are going to care when someone gets killed by a robocar, it depends on who stands to make or lose money if they do or don't.
  - themacguffinman 5y ago
    It seems more likely that the manufacturer will blamed. Society already has experience dealing with inhuman harm from devices. If a phone explodes on its own, no one is calling for all phones to be banned.
    - jimmydorry 5y ago
      If a phone explodes, many businesses outlaw that brand and maybe narrow that to a model. With prior example, do you think the same won’t happen with a self-driving car?
- bagels 5y ago
  People will care a disproportionate amount, I think.
summerlight 5y ago
Tesla already did it. No one seems to care?
- notatoad 5y ago
  I don't remember in incident where a Tesla killed a pedestrian? I know Uber did, and now they don't have a self-driving car program anymore. not necessarily causation, but it can't have helped.
  - jefftk 5y ago
    > not necessarily causation, but it can't have helped I do think it was causal: when the official report came out it was clear that their system was completely inappropriate for autonomous driving. https://www.jefftk.com/p/uber-self-driving-crash https://www.jefftk.com/p/uber-self-driving-crash
- jlmorton 5y ago
  Because we don't know if it did it. All we know is that a Tesla was involved with a fatal crash involving a person changing their tire on the Long Island Expressway. [1] There's been no confirmation whether Autopilot was enabled. [1] https://apnews.com/article/technology-business-6127ae797c528ca1d5322efc43439a12 https://apnews.com/article/technology-business-6127ae797c528...
  - summerlight 5y ago
    Just in case you're not aware of, Tesla has a long history of fatal cases driven by Autopilot[1] with the first case below: This entire incident occurred without any actual input or action taken by the driver of the Tesla vehicle, except that the driver had his hands on the steering wheel as measured by Tesla’s Autosteer system. Indeed, the Tesla Model X was equipped with an Event Data Recorder (EDR) which is intended to enable Tesla to collect data and record information from its vehicles and also provides information on various processes of the vehicle’s functioning systems when a crash occurs. The information regarding vehicle speed as extracted from the Tesla Model X provides proof of the foregoing facts[2] [1] https://www.tesladeaths.com/ https://www.tesladeaths.com/ [2] https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Tesla-Death.pdf https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Te...

>10 pedestrians are killed each year by human drivers in SF, and almost exclusively they are the drivers fault (not only by definition, but also based on an impartial assessment of the situations). People will not care, and I also do not think these automated cars are going to kill any pedestrians anyways.

aidenn0 5y ago
When a human kills someone "that's a bad driver, take away their license" when a machine kills someone "that's a bad machine, ban it"
AnimalMuppet 5y ago
If you're setting the over-under at 0.5, I'll take the over...
DamnYuppie 5y ago
Agreed most people will not care. The legacy auto manufacturers and their mainstream media lap dogs will jump all over it. There will be an outpouring of fabricated outrage. It is all so predictable I want to puke.
- jjulius 5y ago
  Take a deep breathe, you're going to be OK.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- wutbrodo 5y ago
  The legacy manufacturers are pretty invested in the self-driving space at this point though, no? Cruise itself is owned by Honda and GM, among others. I believe waymo has similar investors. I think we'll see a situation more like nicotine vapes. Instead of trying to crush the industry, big cigarette manufacturers just bought them.
  - jimmydorry 5y ago
    Invested to not fall behind. They will snipe at their opponents, and I don’t doubt they would do the numbers on torpedoing their own solution if it meant wiping the field clean. Long-term, self-driving cars taking will mean less cars sold to consumers. Between ride-sharing, commercial operations, etc. the end goal will be less cars on roads.
- amznthrwaway 5y ago
  You “want to puke” because of a response to a problem, where you’re simply imagining both the problem _and_ the response? Calm down.
ajsnigrutin 5y ago
> People will not care I don't believe that. One pregnant woman gets hi, and she and her unborn child die, and there will be so much anger and pressure on the politcians, everything will get outlawed. Human drivers are individuals... John Doe killed someone, blame John Doe. Autonomous car kills someone, blame all autonomous cars!
- vmception 5y ago
  Consensus is a gradient, and representative consensus is multiple gradients.
  - oblio 5y ago
    Techies are a very narrow band in any of these gradients. Regular people are very wide bands, and there's a reason horror sci-fi movies where robots kill humankind are extremely popular.
    - gfodor 5y ago
      You're both right and wrong at the same time. The media gets to decide, as always, what we're collectively outraged about. Or to be more specific, the people who control the media. So if you want to predict if people are going to care when someone gets killed by a robocar, it depends on who stands to make or lose money if they do or don't.
- themacguffinman 5y ago
  It seems more likely that the manufacturer will blamed. Society already has experience dealing with inhuman harm from devices. If a phone explodes on its own, no one is calling for all phones to be banned.
  - jimmydorry 5y ago
    If a phone explodes, many businesses outlaw that brand and maybe narrow that to a model. With prior example, do you think the same won’t happen with a self-driving car?
bagels 5y ago
People will care a disproportionate amount, I think.

summerlight 5y ago

Tesla already did it. No one seems to care?

notatoad 5y ago
I don't remember in incident where a Tesla killed a pedestrian? I know Uber did, and now they don't have a self-driving car program anymore. not necessarily causation, but it can't have helped.
- jefftk 5y ago
  > not necessarily causation, but it can't have helped I do think it was causal: when the official report came out it was clear that their system was completely inappropriate for autonomous driving. https://www.jefftk.com/p/uber-self-driving-crash https://www.jefftk.com/p/uber-self-driving-crash
jlmorton 5y ago
Because we don't know if it did it. All we know is that a Tesla was involved with a fatal crash involving a person changing their tire on the Long Island Expressway. [1] There's been no confirmation whether Autopilot was enabled. [1] https://apnews.com/article/technology-business-6127ae797c528ca1d5322efc43439a12 https://apnews.com/article/technology-business-6127ae797c528...
- summerlight 5y ago
  Just in case you're not aware of, Tesla has a long history of fatal cases driven by Autopilot[1] with the first case below: This entire incident occurred without any actual input or action taken by the driver of the Tesla vehicle, except that the driver had his hands on the steering wheel as measured by Tesla’s Autosteer system. Indeed, the Tesla Model X was equipped with an Event Data Recorder (EDR) which is intended to enable Tesla to collect data and record information from its vehicles and also provides information on various processes of the vehicle’s functioning systems when a crash occurs. The information regarding vehicle speed as extracted from the Tesla Model X provides proof of the foregoing facts[2] [1] https://www.tesladeaths.com/ https://www.tesladeaths.com/ [2] https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Tesla-Death.pdf https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Te...