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I agree with you, but I also kind of hate that "Why don't you just..?" has become so tainted, because it is a great question to ask if you want to learn more ab

I agree with you, but I also kind of hate that "Why don't you just..?" has become so tainted, because it is a great question to ask if you want to learn more about the heart of the matter. What went wrong when the 'obvious' solution was tried is interesting! Or, huh, just spitballing here, I suppose one could rephrase it as "have you considered..?" to ask the same question without the implicit assumption that the task is easy and the person being asked has overlooked something/is an idiot.

nineplay 5y ago
The problem specifically is "just". "Why don't they use containers instead of tarballs?" is a excellent question which can help you understand a system better. "Why don't they just use containers instead of tarballs?" strongly suggests that containers are obviously superior and there must be some flaw in the system that's keeping the tarballs around.
- burnished 5y ago
  I think you are correct, thank you for pointing that out to me.
- jfrunyon 5y ago
  "Just" suggests that containers appear better for the purpose at hand from the questioner's perspective. Which is also suggested by the question being asked at all.
- musicale 5y ago
  I think "just" is supposed to imply that the proposed solution might be simpler or easier in some way, not that it's obviously superior overall. [Of course in the case of containers vs. tarballs ... it might actually make the system more complex and more difficult to implement, use, and maintain - something which might be nice to state explicitly along with the reasons why. >;-)]
_carbyau_ 5y ago
I agree with you that "questioning why" it generally a good thing for understanding. The issue here is one of communication, whereby the connotations of "just" may be taken differently by Asker and Responder. A Responder could take the use of "just" as implying "obvious thing you personally missed" which derides your efforts/understanding/intellect/ego. Whereas I see the use of "just" as saying something about the Askers mental model. The Asker knows their mental model says this is easy. The Asker knows you did not do [easy thing]. They want to know why there is a disparity. Anecdotally, I have been hobbying away when my wife walks in - is given a brief explanation of what I am doing - says "Why don't you just [xyz]?" She has limited information. She knows it. I know it. We both know her mental model is not like mine. But through her building it how she wants we can explore options. When she says "just" it is because her mental model says this should be easy. And sometimes I eat humble pie because it is. Because my mental model was built from scratch from a different direction and my perspective means I didn't see [easy thing]. Not often. But often enough that I appreciate every time my wife asks. Maybe the issue is who/how often you are asked the "just" question. Are you being bothered by too many people who don't-really-know/don't-really-care ? Then the Nth person coming up saying "why don't you just?" is another time/attention sapping interaction.
tehnub 5y ago
Post from a little while back where someone really really thought this through. IIRC, they concluded that there's no good way to ask it, lol. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21675717 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21675717
jeffffff 5y ago
i like to phrase this sort of question as "i'm assuming you considered this simpler solution, why was that not sufficient?" sometimes the answer is that they didn't consider it and now feel dumb for not thinking of it, but i've never seen anyone get defensive or offended or upset when phrasing it that way.

nineplay 5y ago

The problem specifically is "just". "Why don't they use containers instead of tarballs?" is a excellent question which can help you understand a system better. "Why don't they just use containers instead of tarballs?" strongly suggests that containers are obviously superior and there must be some flaw in the system that's keeping the tarballs around.

burnished 5y ago
I think you are correct, thank you for pointing that out to me.
jfrunyon 5y ago
"Just" suggests that containers appear better for the purpose at hand from the questioner's perspective. Which is also suggested by the question being asked at all.
musicale 5y ago
I think "just" is supposed to imply that the proposed solution might be simpler or easier in some way, not that it's obviously superior overall. [Of course in the case of containers vs. tarballs ... it might actually make the system more complex and more difficult to implement, use, and maintain - something which might be nice to state explicitly along with the reasons why. >;-)]

_carbyau_ 5y ago

I agree with you that "questioning why" it generally a good thing for understanding. The issue here is one of communication, whereby the connotations of "just" may be taken differently by Asker and Responder. A Responder could take the use of "just" as implying "obvious thing you personally missed" which derides your efforts/understanding/intellect/ego. Whereas I see the use of "just" as saying something about the Askers mental model. The Asker knows their mental model says this is easy. The Asker knows you did not do [easy thing]. They want to know why there is a disparity. Anecdotally, I have been hobbying away when my wife walks in - is given a brief explanation of what I am doing - says "Why don't you just [xyz]?" She has limited information. She knows it. I know it. We both know her mental model is not like mine. But through her building it how she wants we can explore options. When she says "just" it is because her mental model says this should be easy. And sometimes I eat humble pie because it is. Because my mental model was built from scratch from a different direction and my perspective means I didn't see [easy thing]. Not often. But often enough that I appreciate every time my wife asks. Maybe the issue is who/how often you are asked the "just" question. Are you being bothered by too many people who don't-really-know/don't-really-care ? Then the Nth person coming up saying "why don't you just?" is another time/attention sapping interaction.

tehnub 5y ago

Post from a little while back where someone really really thought this through. IIRC, they concluded that there's no good way to ask it, lol. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21675717 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21675717

jeffffff 5y ago

i like to phrase this sort of question as "i'm assuming you considered this simpler solution, why was that not sufficient?" sometimes the answer is that they didn't consider it and now feel dumb for not thinking of it, but i've never seen anyone get defensive or offended or upset when phrasing it that way.