4 ms·

Someday we’re going to hit the cascade point, where we’ve simultaneously and severely damaged or disrupted so many ecosystems that they won’t be able to recover

Someday we’re going to hit the cascade point, where we’ve simultaneously and severely damaged or disrupted so many ecosystems that they won’t be able to recover and it all just collapses.

jrwoodruff 5y ago
Great thing is, we probably won't know what that point is until we've past it.
- shakezula 5y ago
  It will hit us like a brick wall when we start experiencing actual environmental ramifications for this, too. Ocean acidification, the methane clathrate gun, some of the most serious climate issues that we've identified aren't even within the window of public discussion. The Green New Deal isn't even close to being passed. I can't even imagine America pulling together to pass a boring infrastructure bill right now. I honestly can't fathom how previous presidents got anything done at all, let alone the massive public works projects that shaped America in the middle of the 20th century.
  - fleddr 5y ago
    It's even worse. Fighting climate change, which seemingly already is controversial, is purely about human self preservation. It doesn't address biodiversity, pollution, habitat destruction, the oceans being empty, none of it.
titzer 5y ago
The future is here already, it's just not evenly distributed. There are countless examples of local ecosystems that have been entirely decimated as a direct result of human activity. It's been going on for millenia. The Tigris/Euphrates river region used be a lush, fertile paradise. Thousands of years of human agriculture has turned it into what it is today. Clear-cutting of forests throughout North America, Britain, New Zealand are other examples. Recent collapses of kelp forests off the coast of California. Not to mention coral reefs dying and the great desertification of western China. It's happening all over. It's here now.
- veb 5y ago
  I'm in NZ, and we have very large (I'd wager true wilderness) forests with native trees and fauna. Even cutting native trees on your property can be pretty bad (people get convicted for this). Unless say, the tree is about to fall on your house. We have a lot of national parks, I just would like us to get some more national marine reserves considering we have a pretty large EEZ zone around the country: https://teara.govt.nz/en/map/33830/exclusive-economic-zones https://teara.govt.nz/en/map/33830/exclusive-economic-zones (which is the forth largest in the world). There's so much we can do better, and we are trying. Pine, etc we don't care about cutting down. Ngāi Tahu a South Island Maōri tribe actually own a lot of these forests and the idea is that when they're felled for timber, natives are grown in place. I hope they keep that up, and to be fair, they're not really in need of much more money considering they are the richest tribe in NZ as they've re-invested everything they got after the Treaty of Waitangi. We should do more though, always. If you ever visit, there's places in Stewart Island for example that have been completely made rodent free - and things are blooming there. On a school camp (we stayed on a yacht for a week), we got to experience a magical full moon-lit beach and got to witness all the wee kiwis come out and play. It was the most magical sight I've ever seen.
  - ImaCake 5y ago
    NZ is doing some impressive things in conservation. If there is any country on earth that can clear out most pest species, then it is NZ. It would be the combination of wealth and the isolated geopgraphy if you do pull it off.
- whymauri 5y ago
  I can't recommend david attenborough's "a life on our planet" enough to gain some perspective on this. You're completely right: it's already happening.
- shakezula 5y ago
  I understand what's happening all over, but those are the small collapses I'm saying will eventually all string together and start to cause wider collapse that we won't be able to stop. Right now, we can still rewild an ecosystem fairly easily, but that won't be feasible when multiple ecosystems are collapsing all around us. Don't get me wrong, I think we should be in panic mode and start a full redirection of public funds towards serious preservation of natural species and habitats, with carbon sequestration implementations, both short and long term solutions, and a serious jobs program to implement all of the above. But it won't happen because the public is too removed from the problem. Most people haven't felt any real impact, and we probably won't be able to get massive legislation passed until that point, and I fear it will be too late once they do.
fleddr 5y ago
Wait until urban people find out what role insects play in food production. Insects in turn relying on healthy habitats. They'll find out when shelves are empty or prices go x 10.

Someday we’re going to hit the cascade point, where we’ve simultaneously and severely damaged or disrupted so many ecosystems that they won’t be able to recover and it all just collapses.

jrwoodruff 5y ago

Great thing is, we probably won't know what that point is until we've past it.

shakezula 5y ago
It will hit us like a brick wall when we start experiencing actual environmental ramifications for this, too. Ocean acidification, the methane clathrate gun, some of the most serious climate issues that we've identified aren't even within the window of public discussion. The Green New Deal isn't even close to being passed. I can't even imagine America pulling together to pass a boring infrastructure bill right now. I honestly can't fathom how previous presidents got anything done at all, let alone the massive public works projects that shaped America in the middle of the 20th century.
- fleddr 5y ago
  It's even worse. Fighting climate change, which seemingly already is controversial, is purely about human self preservation. It doesn't address biodiversity, pollution, habitat destruction, the oceans being empty, none of it.

titzer 5y ago

The future is here already, it's just not evenly distributed. There are countless examples of local ecosystems that have been entirely decimated as a direct result of human activity. It's been going on for millenia. The Tigris/Euphrates river region used be a lush, fertile paradise. Thousands of years of human agriculture has turned it into what it is today. Clear-cutting of forests throughout North America, Britain, New Zealand are other examples. Recent collapses of kelp forests off the coast of California. Not to mention coral reefs dying and the great desertification of western China. It's happening all over. It's here now.

veb 5y ago
I'm in NZ, and we have very large (I'd wager true wilderness) forests with native trees and fauna. Even cutting native trees on your property can be pretty bad (people get convicted for this). Unless say, the tree is about to fall on your house. We have a lot of national parks, I just would like us to get some more national marine reserves considering we have a pretty large EEZ zone around the country: https://teara.govt.nz/en/map/33830/exclusive-economic-zones https://teara.govt.nz/en/map/33830/exclusive-economic-zones (which is the forth largest in the world). There's so much we can do better, and we are trying. Pine, etc we don't care about cutting down. Ngāi Tahu a South Island Maōri tribe actually own a lot of these forests and the idea is that when they're felled for timber, natives are grown in place. I hope they keep that up, and to be fair, they're not really in need of much more money considering they are the richest tribe in NZ as they've re-invested everything they got after the Treaty of Waitangi. We should do more though, always. If you ever visit, there's places in Stewart Island for example that have been completely made rodent free - and things are blooming there. On a school camp (we stayed on a yacht for a week), we got to experience a magical full moon-lit beach and got to witness all the wee kiwis come out and play. It was the most magical sight I've ever seen.
- ImaCake 5y ago
  NZ is doing some impressive things in conservation. If there is any country on earth that can clear out most pest species, then it is NZ. It would be the combination of wealth and the isolated geopgraphy if you do pull it off.
whymauri 5y ago
I can't recommend david attenborough's "a life on our planet" enough to gain some perspective on this. You're completely right: it's already happening.
shakezula 5y ago
I understand what's happening all over, but those are the small collapses I'm saying will eventually all string together and start to cause wider collapse that we won't be able to stop. Right now, we can still rewild an ecosystem fairly easily, but that won't be feasible when multiple ecosystems are collapsing all around us. Don't get me wrong, I think we should be in panic mode and start a full redirection of public funds towards serious preservation of natural species and habitats, with carbon sequestration implementations, both short and long term solutions, and a serious jobs program to implement all of the above. But it won't happen because the public is too removed from the problem. Most people haven't felt any real impact, and we probably won't be able to get massive legislation passed until that point, and I fear it will be too late once they do.

fleddr 5y ago

Wait until urban people find out what role insects play in food production. Insects in turn relying on healthy habitats. They'll find out when shelves are empty or prices go x 10.