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> This correlation of heart rates, described this month in Cell Reports, could one day lead to new tools for measuring attentiveness, both in the classroom and

> This correlation of heart rates, described this month in Cell Reports, could one day lead to new tools for measuring attentiveness, both in the classroom and the clinic. Shame such interesting science inspires such dystopian machinations. "People synchronize their bodies when absorbed in attention." --> "How can schools use this to make sure students are paying attention?" Please don't.

UncleOxidant 5y ago
Exactly my thought. Instead of saying "hey, isn't this a really interesting finding and maybe we could use it to help people get over anxiety" or something like that, they go the dystopian route. But I do wonder if they go that direction because they're interested in corporate funding for their research and that could be a way to get it.
pugworthy 5y ago
Another way to phrase it would be "How can schools know if they are engaging with their students?" Or, "How can teachers better understand what engages students and what doesn't engage them?" That said, a good storyteller or teacher knows if they are engaging their audience (or failing to) and can adjust for better engagement. Bad ones don't know this, or even if they do, don't necessarily know what to do about it.
- ALittleLight 5y ago
  The immediate concern is that, if a metric indicates a problem, who will be forced to change? The student or the teacher? If Mrs. Smith realizes little Timmy isn't paying attention, is she going to accept and consider the possibility she is boring, or just punish Timmy? For perspective, consider how often children are currently drugged when they are found not to be paying attention in school. Privacy may play a useful role here in directing us toward the good futures rather than the bad. For example, maybe schools are allowed to use heart rate attention monitors, but the data must be aggregated and anonimized. It's okay for Mrs. Smith to learn that 74% of her X (where X is greater than 50) students pay attention when she speaks and this puts her at Y percentile of teachers across the country in her subject. It's not okay for her to know the attentiveness of individual students. Of course, in reality I have zero hope that this would be used in a positive way.
  - LocalH 5y ago
    >If Mrs. Smith realizes little Timmy isn't paying attention, is she going to accept and consider the possibility she is boring, or just punish Timmy? For perspective, consider how often children are currently drugged when they are found not to be paying attention in school. As someone who was diagnosed with ADD in 1988, this point is very poignant. Society largely tends to ignore and downplay the fact that everyone's experience is subjectively different and that not everyone has the same "brain wiring".
ptr2voidStar 5y ago
Faith in humanity restored. I came here to make the very point you so eloquently made.
Karawebnetwork 5y ago
It doesn't have to be so dystopian. It could be used as a way to detect when your audience loses attention and needs a break.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
peterburkimsher 5y ago
Synchronising happens all the time! Not only with people, even with animals, and even pendulum clocks on rollers. We clap along together to the beat of songs, and the physical movement causes our heartbeat to change and therefore synchronise. Sharing that experience is a good thing! When walking around the local supermarket, I noticed that everyone was walking in-step. Then I took off my headphones, and noticed that they were following the beat of the piped music in the background. It was much easier to navigate the store without conflict or bumping into people, because we had that shared clock signal. Could background music, or even something more simple like a ticking clock, make people more synchronised with each other? I think it could be a good thing.
MaxBarraclough 5y ago
I'm reminded of Snow Crash: Y.T.'s mom pulls up the new memo, checks the time, and starts reading it. The estimated reading time is 15.62 minutes. Later, when Marietta does her end-of-day statistical roundup, sitting in her private office at 9:00 P.M., she will see the name of each employee and next to it, the amount of time spent reading this memo... Y.T.'s mom decides to spend between fourteen and fifteen minutes reading the memo. It's better for younger workers to spend too long, to show that they're careful, not cocky. It's better for older workers to go a little fast, to show good management potential. She's pushing forty. She scans through the memo, hitting the Page Down button at reasonably regular intervals, occasionally paging back up to pretend to reread some earlier section. The computer is going to notice all this. It approves of rereading. It's a small thing, but over a decade or so this stuff really shows up on your work-habits summary. (Text copied from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17067951 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17067951 . Neat that googling for the quote brought me right back to HN.)
LuisMondragon 5y ago
They turned something beautiful and poetic into a Black Mirror prompt.
tfehring 5y ago
As dystopias go, it seems pretty charitable to jump to education instead of to surveillance monopolists. “Ad attentiveness too low, please drink verification can”, etc.

UncleOxidant 5y ago

Exactly my thought. Instead of saying "hey, isn't this a really interesting finding and maybe we could use it to help people get over anxiety" or something like that, they go the dystopian route. But I do wonder if they go that direction because they're interested in corporate funding for their research and that could be a way to get it.

pugworthy 5y ago

Another way to phrase it would be "How can schools know if they are engaging with their students?" Or, "How can teachers better understand what engages students and what doesn't engage them?" That said, a good storyteller or teacher knows if they are engaging their audience (or failing to) and can adjust for better engagement. Bad ones don't know this, or even if they do, don't necessarily know what to do about it.

ALittleLight 5y ago
The immediate concern is that, if a metric indicates a problem, who will be forced to change? The student or the teacher? If Mrs. Smith realizes little Timmy isn't paying attention, is she going to accept and consider the possibility she is boring, or just punish Timmy? For perspective, consider how often children are currently drugged when they are found not to be paying attention in school. Privacy may play a useful role here in directing us toward the good futures rather than the bad. For example, maybe schools are allowed to use heart rate attention monitors, but the data must be aggregated and anonimized. It's okay for Mrs. Smith to learn that 74% of her X (where X is greater than 50) students pay attention when she speaks and this puts her at Y percentile of teachers across the country in her subject. It's not okay for her to know the attentiveness of individual students. Of course, in reality I have zero hope that this would be used in a positive way.
- LocalH 5y ago
  >If Mrs. Smith realizes little Timmy isn't paying attention, is she going to accept and consider the possibility she is boring, or just punish Timmy? For perspective, consider how often children are currently drugged when they are found not to be paying attention in school. As someone who was diagnosed with ADD in 1988, this point is very poignant. Society largely tends to ignore and downplay the fact that everyone's experience is subjectively different and that not everyone has the same "brain wiring".

ptr2voidStar 5y ago

Faith in humanity restored. I came here to make the very point you so eloquently made.

Karawebnetwork 5y ago

It doesn't have to be so dystopian. It could be used as a way to detect when your audience loses attention and needs a break.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

peterburkimsher 5y ago

Synchronising happens all the time! Not only with people, even with animals, and even pendulum clocks on rollers. We clap along together to the beat of songs, and the physical movement causes our heartbeat to change and therefore synchronise. Sharing that experience is a good thing! When walking around the local supermarket, I noticed that everyone was walking in-step. Then I took off my headphones, and noticed that they were following the beat of the piped music in the background. It was much easier to navigate the store without conflict or bumping into people, because we had that shared clock signal. Could background music, or even something more simple like a ticking clock, make people more synchronised with each other? I think it could be a good thing.

MaxBarraclough 5y ago

I'm reminded of Snow Crash: Y.T.'s mom pulls up the new memo, checks the time, and starts reading it. The estimated reading time is 15.62 minutes. Later, when Marietta does her end-of-day statistical roundup, sitting in her private office at 9:00 P.M., she will see the name of each employee and next to it, the amount of time spent reading this memo... Y.T.'s mom decides to spend between fourteen and fifteen minutes reading the memo. It's better for younger workers to spend too long, to show that they're careful, not cocky. It's better for older workers to go a little fast, to show good management potential. She's pushing forty. She scans through the memo, hitting the Page Down button at reasonably regular intervals, occasionally paging back up to pretend to reread some earlier section. The computer is going to notice all this. It approves of rereading. It's a small thing, but over a decade or so this stuff really shows up on your work-habits summary. (Text copied from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17067951 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17067951 . Neat that googling for the quote brought me right back to HN.)

LuisMondragon 5y ago

They turned something beautiful and poetic into a Black Mirror prompt.

tfehring 5y ago

As dystopias go, it seems pretty charitable to jump to education instead of to surveillance monopolists. “Ad attentiveness too low, please drink verification can”, etc.