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Belief in being created requires belief in some being (your creator, or their creator, etc...), _not_ being created - the prime mover. Unless you believe in an

Belief in being created requires belief in some being (your creator, or their creator, etc...), _not_ being created - the prime mover. Unless you believe in an infinite regress of creators I guess.

greenonions 5y ago
Infinite regress of creators sounds the most compelling to me. Wouldn't God also wonder why he exists?
- pmdulaney 5y ago
  I'm a very (small "o") orthodox Christian and consequently I don't think that God wonders why He exists, but I do think that is a very insightful question!
- mensetmanusman 5y ago
  So would argue that God is ‘to be’ and therefore would not wonder.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- grosswait 5y ago
  Infinite regression of creators: Mormonism
lanstin 5y ago
God as a the Ground of Being in the words of the Christian Existentialists. God is not separate from creation, God as Verb, God as transcendent and so on. The completion of the chain of ordinals. There is a lot of theology on how you don’t need a chain of creators. “Begotten not made.” While we humans are clearly not transcendent or immanent, most people don’t try to nail down what they believe as God into a little piece of reality, but as something more pervasive. Loving all everywhere and subtly encouraging all beings into doing their best at each moment.
Veen 5y ago
Doesn't the same infinite regress exist in physics? I know they argue that it's meaningless to ask what came "before" when the universe and time didn't exist, but the idea it all just started out of nothing or has always been seems to me as unsatisfactory as "God did it".
- beecafe 5y ago
  Absolutely. If you say something came before the universe, then you need a new word to describe that, and what was previous called the universe is no longer (by definition/need for a term to encapsulate all). Personally I don't believe physics is yet equipped to answer such questions, nor can it be until we understand time (and so probably quantum gravity, due to relativity).
  - mensetmanusman 5y ago
    But you can’t use the word ‘before’ since time didn’t exist. These are concepts that probably humans can’t grok because we are so wedded to time.
mensetmanusman 5y ago
By definition we were ‘created’. The argument is over whether it was meaningless random creation (atheism) or whether there is meaning beyond the veil (theism).

Belief in being created requires belief in some being (your creator, or their creator, etc...), _not_ being created - the prime mover. Unless you believe in an infinite regress of creators I guess.

greenonions 5y ago

Infinite regress of creators sounds the most compelling to me. Wouldn't God also wonder why he exists?

pmdulaney 5y ago
I'm a very (small "o") orthodox Christian and consequently I don't think that God wonders why He exists, but I do think that is a very insightful question!
mensetmanusman 5y ago
So would argue that God is ‘to be’ and therefore would not wonder.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
grosswait 5y ago
Infinite regression of creators: Mormonism

lanstin 5y ago

God as a the Ground of Being in the words of the Christian Existentialists. God is not separate from creation, God as Verb, God as transcendent and so on. The completion of the chain of ordinals. There is a lot of theology on how you don’t need a chain of creators. “Begotten not made.” While we humans are clearly not transcendent or immanent, most people don’t try to nail down what they believe as God into a little piece of reality, but as something more pervasive. Loving all everywhere and subtly encouraging all beings into doing their best at each moment.

Veen 5y ago

Doesn't the same infinite regress exist in physics? I know they argue that it's meaningless to ask what came "before" when the universe and time didn't exist, but the idea it all just started out of nothing or has always been seems to me as unsatisfactory as "God did it".

beecafe 5y ago
Absolutely. If you say something came before the universe, then you need a new word to describe that, and what was previous called the universe is no longer (by definition/need for a term to encapsulate all). Personally I don't believe physics is yet equipped to answer such questions, nor can it be until we understand time (and so probably quantum gravity, due to relativity).
- mensetmanusman 5y ago
  But you can’t use the word ‘before’ since time didn’t exist. These are concepts that probably humans can’t grok because we are so wedded to time.

mensetmanusman 5y ago

By definition we were ‘created’. The argument is over whether it was meaningless random creation (atheism) or whether there is meaning beyond the veil (theism).