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> Surprisingly, there isn't a headphone jack, which seems like something Fairphone's demographic would really have wanted. Wired headphones last indefinitely, w

> Surprisingly, there isn't a headphone jack, which seems like something Fairphone's demographic would really have wanted. Wired headphones last indefinitely, while Bluetooth buds turn into garbage after a few years when the batteries die. Every wired headphones I've had started to break down after a year or so, including ones with a detachable cable. BT headphones are much more reliable. If you buy something like the Sony's you can probably get replacement batteries.

HelixEndeavor 5y ago
Sounds like you've been getting cheap headphones. Bluetooth headphones are inherently less reliable due to far more points of failure. You say you can "probably" get replacement batteries but we've already seen that it's damn near impossible to source the tiny batteries for things like true wireless earbuds.
- chrisseaton 5y ago
  > Bluetooth headphones are inherently less reliable due to far more points of failure. Really? They seem to have less points of failure to me - they're fully encapsulated (usually glued shut) and don't have to physically interface with anything less than simple metal charging pads. Compared to physically being shoved into something and yanked out and a cable that is being manipulated.
  - L_226 5y ago
    software is a point of failure :) also, batteries
  - Reubachi 5y ago
    Software, batteries, and the bluetooth comm protocol are three giant points of failure. An example, I can no longer use my car's (2012) bluetooth with any modern device. At least, it is horribally laggy and doesn't display data, when it works. Points of failure on wired buds are the cord and connector construction and materials. So you can generally know the "more you spend", it's likely being put into the construction (for reputable brands).
  - HelixEndeavor 5y ago
    > They seem to have less points of failure to me - they're fully encapsulated (usually glued shut) This just means they're harder to repair? That's not a reduced point of failure in really any sense. Wired headphones are some wires, solder, also often glue, and a driver. Wireless headphones have batteries, internal computers that need to communicate wirelessly with devices and - in the case of True Wireless Earbuds - themselves, and in general more parts that are more delicate crammed into the same or smaller space. > don't have to physically interface with anything less than simple metal charging pads. Compared to physically being shoved into something and yanked out and a cable that is being manipulated. What a strange point. Unless you're wirelessly charging some AirPods then... You're gonna have to charge those things with a physical cable. That will have to be, as you so hyperbolically put it, "shoved into something and yanked out." Fortunately, any decent headphones worth your money anticipate such rude treatment and have their cables be easily replaceable. Wireless headphones can't be said to do the same for their batteries that will inevitably wear out.
    - chrisseaton 5y ago
      I don't know if maybe you don't use Bluetooth headphones, but no they don't have a physical cable you plug in. They do it wirelessly and with pad contacts.
      - Glant 5y ago
        Maybe they were saying the case needs a charging cable unless you do wireless charging?
      - HelixEndeavor 5y ago
        And what are those pad contacts in? A charging case. Which needs to be charged via physical cable.
Gigachad 5y ago
I have been using my Bose bt headphones for 3 years now and they still seem as good as the day I got them. No noticeable battery issues.
BiteCode_dev 5y ago
The new gen yes, but old gen jacked products in my mother living room are still kicking. Granted, they were never attached to a mobile device, which wears the cable.
skocznymroczny 5y ago
No headphone jack doesn't imply wireless headphones. On my Xiaomi Mi 9 SE I just had to use a USB-C to jack dongle.
- gmadsen 5y ago
  interesting, I didn't realize usb-c supports digital and analog audio signals. kind of neat
  - vel0city 5y ago
    Supporting analog audio out over USB-C is definitely something that varies from device to device. Some adapters are passive requiring the device to send analog signals or some devices can be active in which they have their own DAC and expect a digital signal. Some devices will have their own DAC on board and can support a passive device, some devices do not have one and will require an active adapter. Generally speaking, you'll probably have more success with active (DAC-based) USB-C to 3.5mm adapters.
  - leetcrew 5y ago
    I wouldn't get too excited. my pixel 2 came with a headphone jack dongle. the audio quality was not great, and according to forums I read at the time, that OEM dongle was actually one of the better ones. to be fair, I believe that was an actual DAC in the dongle. I suppose in theory you might get better quality with analog passthrough from an onboard DAC. I doubt anyone other than apple would bother putting a decent DAC in a phone with no headphone jack though.
  - chrisseaton 5y ago
    They don't support analogue audio signals - USB is a digital interface - you use a DAC to convert the digital audio signal to analogue.
    - Godel_unicode 5y ago
      USB-C absolutely supports analog audio signaling, it's called "Audio Accessory Mode" in the standard.
throw63738 5y ago
I have wired studio headphones for 20 years.
maep 5y ago
> Every wired headphones I've had started to break down after a year or so, including ones with a detachable cable. To counter your anecdotal evidence, let me offer mine. My AKGs are almost 20 years old now. I only had to relpace the plug once which was a cheap repair I could do myself.
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  I use the $7 to $10 Panasonic HT21 for many years at a time, for the past 15 years.
Vinnl 5y ago
Looks like durability is exactly the reason, though not necessarily of the headphones, but of the phone itself: > A notable downside compared to previous Fairphones is that the Fairphone 4 no longer includes a 3.5mm headphone jack, a choice that feels at odds with the company’s otherwise customer-first approach. Fairphone tells me it made this decision in order to be able to offer an official IP rating for dust and water resistance, which was missing from the company’s previous phones. It’s only IP54, which means it’s protected from light splashes rather than full submersion, but that’s impressive in light of its removable rear cover and modular design. https://www.theverge.com/2021/9/30/22700014/fairphone-4-release-date-news-features-warranty-price-sustainable https://www.theverge.com/2021/9/30/22700014/fairphone-4-rele...
- HelixEndeavor 5y ago
  So a headphone jack is an ingress point, but the charging jack isn't?
  - Godel_unicode 5y ago
    It's not that they can't seal an ingress point so much as that every one they do adds cost and complexity.
    - HelixEndeavor 5y ago
      The phone is already wildly overpriced as is for its specs. By default your market is already restricted to niche enthusiasts. Sacrifices like this make zero sense once you're already at this stage. "The most fair-trade and repairable phone you can't plug headphones into" isn't the nicest selling point.
- BenjiWiebe 5y ago
  Interesting because my Samsung Galaxy S5 has a rating of IP67, and it has a 3.5mm jack.
  - ch4s3 5y ago
NikolaNovak 5y ago
That is... Unique experience. I have two pairs of 15y sennheiser that are pristine and used all the time. And they seamlessly plug into any audio device I own or my friends do, are never out of charge, and I can listen with two headphones from one tablet when wife and I watch a movie on airplane or tent with kids. Bluetooth will sooner or later loose battery - never mind the lag of 15y old Bluetooth standard.
- antisol 5y ago
  Haha, I was just about to reply to the parent with "sounds like you should spend the extra cash on a pair of sennheisers that will last you the rest of your life" when I saw you'd done it for me.
CountDrewku 5y ago
You're buying bad headphones then. The industry pros have been using wired headphones for decades and they've been incredibly reliable.
- nikau 5y ago
  My focal headphones have the best of both worlds, Bluetooth aptx, but also a cable you can attach to use them as normal analogue headphones.
  - CountDrewku 5y ago
    Yeah I've been using a pair of Audio-Technica that have both and I've enjoyed them a lot. I see no reason to upgrade.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
Reubachi 5y ago
"BT headphones are much more reliable. If you buy something like the Sony's you can probably get replacement batteries." I don't think I've read many comments as airy as this one. You can't get replacement batteries. I have a pair of bose wired earbuds from 2013 maybe that still look brand new and the quality blows me away. Literal plug and play.And the type of wire somehow never catches/jumbles/splits etc. In thatsame time I've had at least 5 pairs of bluetooth buds and over ears 9that I can think of). sony, sennheiser, jabra, and some amazon brands. The user experience is different for every one, random buttons, different time to sync, etc. Hundreds of dollars wasted, largely due to battery degradation or one of the buds straight up not working. There's no reason why batteries in bluetooth modules can't be consumer replaced besides planned obsolescence.
joshuajill 5y ago
They chose that path because it enabled them to be water proof and still user repairable. Also, for a less bulky design.

HelixEndeavor 5y ago

Sounds like you've been getting cheap headphones. Bluetooth headphones are inherently less reliable due to far more points of failure. You say you can "probably" get replacement batteries but we've already seen that it's damn near impossible to source the tiny batteries for things like true wireless earbuds.

chrisseaton 5y ago
> Bluetooth headphones are inherently less reliable due to far more points of failure. Really? They seem to have less points of failure to me - they're fully encapsulated (usually glued shut) and don't have to physically interface with anything less than simple metal charging pads. Compared to physically being shoved into something and yanked out and a cable that is being manipulated.
- L_226 5y ago
  software is a point of failure :) also, batteries
- Reubachi 5y ago
  Software, batteries, and the bluetooth comm protocol are three giant points of failure. An example, I can no longer use my car's (2012) bluetooth with any modern device. At least, it is horribally laggy and doesn't display data, when it works. Points of failure on wired buds are the cord and connector construction and materials. So you can generally know the "more you spend", it's likely being put into the construction (for reputable brands).
- HelixEndeavor 5y ago
  > They seem to have less points of failure to me - they're fully encapsulated (usually glued shut) This just means they're harder to repair? That's not a reduced point of failure in really any sense. Wired headphones are some wires, solder, also often glue, and a driver. Wireless headphones have batteries, internal computers that need to communicate wirelessly with devices and - in the case of True Wireless Earbuds - themselves, and in general more parts that are more delicate crammed into the same or smaller space. > don't have to physically interface with anything less than simple metal charging pads. Compared to physically being shoved into something and yanked out and a cable that is being manipulated. What a strange point. Unless you're wirelessly charging some AirPods then... You're gonna have to charge those things with a physical cable. That will have to be, as you so hyperbolically put it, "shoved into something and yanked out." Fortunately, any decent headphones worth your money anticipate such rude treatment and have their cables be easily replaceable. Wireless headphones can't be said to do the same for their batteries that will inevitably wear out.
  - chrisseaton 5y ago
    I don't know if maybe you don't use Bluetooth headphones, but no they don't have a physical cable you plug in. They do it wirelessly and with pad contacts.
    - Glant 5y ago
      Maybe they were saying the case needs a charging cable unless you do wireless charging?
    - HelixEndeavor 5y ago
      And what are those pad contacts in? A charging case. Which needs to be charged via physical cable.

Gigachad 5y ago

I have been using my Bose bt headphones for 3 years now and they still seem as good as the day I got them. No noticeable battery issues.

BiteCode_dev 5y ago

The new gen yes, but old gen jacked products in my mother living room are still kicking. Granted, they were never attached to a mobile device, which wears the cable.

skocznymroczny 5y ago

No headphone jack doesn't imply wireless headphones. On my Xiaomi Mi 9 SE I just had to use a USB-C to jack dongle.

gmadsen 5y ago
interesting, I didn't realize usb-c supports digital and analog audio signals. kind of neat
- vel0city 5y ago
  Supporting analog audio out over USB-C is definitely something that varies from device to device. Some adapters are passive requiring the device to send analog signals or some devices can be active in which they have their own DAC and expect a digital signal. Some devices will have their own DAC on board and can support a passive device, some devices do not have one and will require an active adapter. Generally speaking, you'll probably have more success with active (DAC-based) USB-C to 3.5mm adapters.
- leetcrew 5y ago
  I wouldn't get too excited. my pixel 2 came with a headphone jack dongle. the audio quality was not great, and according to forums I read at the time, that OEM dongle was actually one of the better ones. to be fair, I believe that was an actual DAC in the dongle. I suppose in theory you might get better quality with analog passthrough from an onboard DAC. I doubt anyone other than apple would bother putting a decent DAC in a phone with no headphone jack though.
- chrisseaton 5y ago
  They don't support analogue audio signals - USB is a digital interface - you use a DAC to convert the digital audio signal to analogue.
  - Godel_unicode 5y ago
    USB-C absolutely supports analog audio signaling, it's called "Audio Accessory Mode" in the standard.

throw63738 5y ago

I have wired studio headphones for 20 years.

maep 5y ago

> Every wired headphones I've had started to break down after a year or so, including ones with a detachable cable. To counter your anecdotal evidence, let me offer mine. My AKGs are almost 20 years old now. I only had to relpace the plug once which was a cheap repair I could do myself.

lotsofpulp 5y ago
I use the $7 to $10 Panasonic HT21 for many years at a time, for the past 15 years.

Vinnl 5y ago

Looks like durability is exactly the reason, though not necessarily of the headphones, but of the phone itself: > A notable downside compared to previous Fairphones is that the Fairphone 4 no longer includes a 3.5mm headphone jack, a choice that feels at odds with the company’s otherwise customer-first approach. Fairphone tells me it made this decision in order to be able to offer an official IP rating for dust and water resistance, which was missing from the company’s previous phones. It’s only IP54, which means it’s protected from light splashes rather than full submersion, but that’s impressive in light of its removable rear cover and modular design. https://www.theverge.com/2021/9/30/22700014/fairphone-4-release-date-news-features-warranty-price-sustainable https://www.theverge.com/2021/9/30/22700014/fairphone-4-rele...

HelixEndeavor 5y ago
So a headphone jack is an ingress point, but the charging jack isn't?
- Godel_unicode 5y ago
  It's not that they can't seal an ingress point so much as that every one they do adds cost and complexity.
  - HelixEndeavor 5y ago
    The phone is already wildly overpriced as is for its specs. By default your market is already restricted to niche enthusiasts. Sacrifices like this make zero sense once you're already at this stage. "The most fair-trade and repairable phone you can't plug headphones into" isn't the nicest selling point.
BenjiWiebe 5y ago
Interesting because my Samsung Galaxy S5 has a rating of IP67, and it has a 3.5mm jack.
- ch4s3 5y ago

NikolaNovak 5y ago

That is... Unique experience. I have two pairs of 15y sennheiser that are pristine and used all the time. And they seamlessly plug into any audio device I own or my friends do, are never out of charge, and I can listen with two headphones from one tablet when wife and I watch a movie on airplane or tent with kids. Bluetooth will sooner or later loose battery - never mind the lag of 15y old Bluetooth standard.

antisol 5y ago
Haha, I was just about to reply to the parent with "sounds like you should spend the extra cash on a pair of sennheisers that will last you the rest of your life" when I saw you'd done it for me.

CountDrewku 5y ago

You're buying bad headphones then. The industry pros have been using wired headphones for decades and they've been incredibly reliable.

nikau 5y ago
My focal headphones have the best of both worlds, Bluetooth aptx, but also a cable you can attach to use them as normal analogue headphones.
- CountDrewku 5y ago
  Yeah I've been using a pair of Audio-Technica that have both and I've enjoyed them a lot. I see no reason to upgrade.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

Reubachi 5y ago

"BT headphones are much more reliable. If you buy something like the Sony's you can probably get replacement batteries." I don't think I've read many comments as airy as this one. You can't get replacement batteries. I have a pair of bose wired earbuds from 2013 maybe that still look brand new and the quality blows me away. Literal plug and play.And the type of wire somehow never catches/jumbles/splits etc. In thatsame time I've had at least 5 pairs of bluetooth buds and over ears 9that I can think of). sony, sennheiser, jabra, and some amazon brands. The user experience is different for every one, random buttons, different time to sync, etc. Hundreds of dollars wasted, largely due to battery degradation or one of the buds straight up not working. There's no reason why batteries in bluetooth modules can't be consumer replaced besides planned obsolescence.

joshuajill 5y ago

They chose that path because it enabled them to be water proof and still user repairable. Also, for a less bulky design.