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I'm not particularly happy that this happened but bear in mind that this isn't just your regular small provider. Gab, Epik and Parler (I guess Parler probably l

I'm not particularly happy that this happened but bear in mind that this isn't just your regular small provider. Gab, Epik and Parler (I guess Parler probably less so, but still) have very publicly antagonised a large amount of politically-motivated activists while also not making some of more basic steps to secure themselves. So you're basically inserting yourself into a political battle while risking your data. I feel sorry for the victims but that's the extent of it. The motivation behind hacking Ubiquiti, SonicWall, SolarWinds and even Azure is very different and that matters.

0xy 5y ago
Cloudflare hosts white supremacist websites, anarchist groups, malware providers, hacking groups and otherwise yet if they were hacked I wager you would not have the same response. Why is that? In fact, Cloudflare currently provides services to Gab. Is this a case of double standards on your part for political beliefs of the founders?
- croon 5y ago
  An encyclopedia may feature nazi iconography or text. That's different from a book only featuring nazi iconography and text. Regardless of our respective views, yours is not an accurate comparison.
  - notadev 5y ago
    Have you reviewed the data yourself? Very few of the domains containing Nazi or far-right terms have ever actually been live sites. The ones that are/have been live are a very tiny subset of the overall customer base. There was a recently suspended Twitter account, @epikfailsnippets, that was publicly outing “the fash”. They got a handful of sites that were actually hosting hateful content before moving on to “Christian fascist” websites because there really weren’t as many hate sites as they claimed/expected. The majority, well over 99%, were innocent users using Epik for domain services.
- user-the-name 5y ago
  I absolutely have a huge problem with CloudFlare. They are providing services to KiwiFarms, which is responsible for multiple suicides. That is not how an ethical company operates.
  - 0xy 5y ago
    If KiwiFarms causes "multiple suicides", then why won't you direct your anger at Facebook, which is responsible for thousands of teen suicides? I'm questioning where you choose to direct your outage. Given your own methodology, Facebook is a significantly worse problem than Kiwifarms.
    - user-the-name 5y ago
      Because Facebook is not dedicated to doing this and does not consist entirely of people trying to drive people to suicide. Your response here is basically saying "Why are you trying so hard to catch this serial killer when cars kill so many more people".
  - rvz 5y ago
    Maybe you will also have a problem with LetsEncrypt then which that is being used by the Daily Stormer. [0] The appropriate action is to find any illegal content there and report it directly to either ICANN or to the authorities to force the registrar to take it down. [0] https://community.letsencrypt.org/t/lets-encrypt-is-enabling-hate-speech/115136 https://community.letsencrypt.org/t/lets-encrypt-is-enabling...
    - user-the-name 5y ago
      Yes, it's not great that they are doing that. Taking a stand against hatred is never the wrong thing to do.
- beezischillin 5y ago
  I would probably not have the same response, indeed. Allow me to explain: my dislike of the way these companies have acted is not political. Gab rolled their own SQL injection prevention and failed at it, published the source for it (because they forked Mastodon and had to) and got hacked. When they got hacked they tried to cover it up and did barely anything to fight the fire they created. They got hacked again because they never reset any user tokens in the aftermath. Parler got hacked due to them building a platform on Wordpress, using 3rd party plugins that were riddled with security holes that they never updated. On top of that due to their decision to use WP their entire platform got scraped using the sequential IDs. And we've all seen this entire Epik debacle. I see these as a complete betrayal of user trust and it makes any similar platform or service potentially dangerous to its users, that's all. If you're interested in my political opinion: I'm very torn between censorship and free speech as far as any entity in guardianship of others' speech is concerned, I still haven't found a balance where I'd feel comfortable planting myself because no decision happens in a bubble and is shielded from consequences in a bubble. So, to circle back, I don't dislike Cloudflare for hosting Gab, I wouldn't even say I hate Gab for being Gab, I just avoid it. I don't know if I'd do business with Gab or not, but I'd say this: if you develop a reputation, whether thanks to you or people outside of your influence (the press or social media, for example), you have to manage it and act accordingly or risk causing a fallout. Now, personally, I'd avoid white supremacists and anarchist groups, malware providers, hacking groups and any extremists as far as doing business with myself. However, I'm not in charge of a giant company so I don't have to draw the line and I'm thankful for that, I certainly don't know if I'd have the wisdom to both consider my best interests, my company's best interest and the world's, all at once.

0xy 5y ago

Cloudflare hosts white supremacist websites, anarchist groups, malware providers, hacking groups and otherwise yet if they were hacked I wager you would not have the same response. Why is that? In fact, Cloudflare currently provides services to Gab. Is this a case of double standards on your part for political beliefs of the founders?

croon 5y ago
An encyclopedia may feature nazi iconography or text. That's different from a book only featuring nazi iconography and text. Regardless of our respective views, yours is not an accurate comparison.
- notadev 5y ago
  Have you reviewed the data yourself? Very few of the domains containing Nazi or far-right terms have ever actually been live sites. The ones that are/have been live are a very tiny subset of the overall customer base. There was a recently suspended Twitter account, @epikfailsnippets, that was publicly outing “the fash”. They got a handful of sites that were actually hosting hateful content before moving on to “Christian fascist” websites because there really weren’t as many hate sites as they claimed/expected. The majority, well over 99%, were innocent users using Epik for domain services.
user-the-name 5y ago
I absolutely have a huge problem with CloudFlare. They are providing services to KiwiFarms, which is responsible for multiple suicides. That is not how an ethical company operates.
- 0xy 5y ago
  If KiwiFarms causes "multiple suicides", then why won't you direct your anger at Facebook, which is responsible for thousands of teen suicides? I'm questioning where you choose to direct your outage. Given your own methodology, Facebook is a significantly worse problem than Kiwifarms.
  - user-the-name 5y ago
    Because Facebook is not dedicated to doing this and does not consist entirely of people trying to drive people to suicide. Your response here is basically saying "Why are you trying so hard to catch this serial killer when cars kill so many more people".
- rvz 5y ago
  Maybe you will also have a problem with LetsEncrypt then which that is being used by the Daily Stormer. [0] The appropriate action is to find any illegal content there and report it directly to either ICANN or to the authorities to force the registrar to take it down. [0] https://community.letsencrypt.org/t/lets-encrypt-is-enabling-hate-speech/115136 https://community.letsencrypt.org/t/lets-encrypt-is-enabling...
  - user-the-name 5y ago
    Yes, it's not great that they are doing that. Taking a stand against hatred is never the wrong thing to do.
beezischillin 5y ago
I would probably not have the same response, indeed. Allow me to explain: my dislike of the way these companies have acted is not political. Gab rolled their own SQL injection prevention and failed at it, published the source for it (because they forked Mastodon and had to) and got hacked. When they got hacked they tried to cover it up and did barely anything to fight the fire they created. They got hacked again because they never reset any user tokens in the aftermath. Parler got hacked due to them building a platform on Wordpress, using 3rd party plugins that were riddled with security holes that they never updated. On top of that due to their decision to use WP their entire platform got scraped using the sequential IDs. And we've all seen this entire Epik debacle. I see these as a complete betrayal of user trust and it makes any similar platform or service potentially dangerous to its users, that's all. If you're interested in my political opinion: I'm very torn between censorship and free speech as far as any entity in guardianship of others' speech is concerned, I still haven't found a balance where I'd feel comfortable planting myself because no decision happens in a bubble and is shielded from consequences in a bubble. So, to circle back, I don't dislike Cloudflare for hosting Gab, I wouldn't even say I hate Gab for being Gab, I just avoid it. I don't know if I'd do business with Gab or not, but I'd say this: if you develop a reputation, whether thanks to you or people outside of your influence (the press or social media, for example), you have to manage it and act accordingly or risk causing a fallout. Now, personally, I'd avoid white supremacists and anarchist groups, malware providers, hacking groups and any extremists as far as doing business with myself. However, I'm not in charge of a giant company so I don't have to draw the line and I'm thankful for that, I certainly don't know if I'd have the wisdom to both consider my best interests, my company's best interest and the world's, all at once.