4 ms·

Trust flows both ways. From the get-go, the messaging should have been: "This is an evolving situation, and we're doing our best to keep up. Right now, our rec

by donw 5y ago

Trust flows both ways. From the get-go, the messaging should have been: "This is an evolving situation, and we're doing our best to keep up. Right now, our recommendations are X. As we learn, those are going to change." That's what Japan did. Humility and respect. It worked. In the US, it was: "Masks don't work! You're too stupid to even know how to use one properly. Save them for nurses. No, wait, if you don't wear your mask, you're literally killing grandma! We'll arrest your goat-fucking inbred ass if you don't mask up. Trump's vaccine? You'd have to be a colossal moron to take that experimental garbage. Not for me! No, wait, it's Biden's vaccine now? If you don't get the jab, you're Hitler Squared! Don't want it? You're fired!" How well this worked is left as an exercise for the reader.

ziml77 5y ago
That worked in Japan because the culture there is far less selfish. People there would already wear masks when sick to avoid spreading it to others. But in the US, you have people who continue to make arguments about how it's stupid to force them to wear a mask because others are afraid of getting COVID. I saw a really bad meme about that the other day where one person was walking with an umbrella and angrily telling someone else to also use an umbrella so the person with the umbrella wouldn't get wet.
- loopz 5y ago
  In Japan, commandments works. In US and other countries not that well. Along with humility and information, people also need to sense the care.
- donw 5y ago
  > That worked in Japan because the culture there is far less selfish. No, and I'm tired of hearing this trope. People are plenty selfish everywhere. Japan works because Japanese government understands trust. So does China, and for the same reasons.
ferrumfist 5y ago
You can't possibly compare the USA's culture to Japan's. The USA is incredibly individualistic and many Americans hold deep-seated distrust of any government/societal institutions. Japan's culture is entirely communal. You don't talk on a cellphone on the train because it may inconvenience other passengers. You wear a mask when you're sick so you don't inconvenience others. So much of Japan's culture is rooted in making sure you aren't disrupting the general flow of society. You can talk about "improper messaging" in the USA, but that rests squarely with President Trump. The entire point of that position is to be the figurehead of America and a unifying presence when things go wrong. He did not, and it caused irreparable damage to the trust and cohesiveness of the public early on in the pandemic.
- loopz 5y ago
  Yet, why support your oppression? The entire left/right ideas are pretty lame.
  - donw 5y ago
    > The entire left/right ideas are pretty lame. Agreed. It's a poor model, and doesn't reflect the current reality.
- donw 5y ago
  > You can't possibly compare the USA's culture to Japan's. I can and shall. > Much of Japan's culture is rooted in making sure you aren't disrupting the general flow of society. It may surprise you to learn that the US was like this before. And that Japan probably won't be in forty years' time. You know that movie trope from the 70s and before, where somebody needs a car, gets in one, which is, of course, unlocked, pulls down the visor, and the keys drop into their lap? That's what it's like where I live. My town had a home invasion last week. I don't think I've ever heard of that happening here. > But that rests squarely with President Trump No. The establishment burned every ounce of credibility available to burn, succeeded in ousting Trump from office, and is now crying that everything has gone all firey like. If Trump got a Big Mac on Monday, that was proof he was a Nazi. If he didn't on Tuesday, that was more proof that he was a Nazi. Biden could nuke Dallas tomorrow and MSNBC would defend him without question. As would probably half the GOP. The problem with "winning at any cost" is the cost. Like it or not, that's the state of things in the US.
tl 5y ago
Your US section is mostly accurate (and mortifying for the "trust the government" argument) in terms of how it was mentioned, but I disagree the "Trump's vaccine" segment. The numbers of the rollout might fit that story after the fact, but doesn't make it true. Moreover, the entire odyssey of you should get this vaccine but only if you're in a very specific age or risk pool and let's punish people and hospitals who violate this set of ever-evolving poorly communicated rules did happen and might be even worse.
- donw 5y ago
  There's a supercut of prominent Blue Team folks -- including the Vice President! -- publicly refusing to to take "Trump's Vaccine". After Biden took office, they executed an "about face" so hard that their heads are functional gyroscopes. Totally agreed on the rest. My stance is simple: get the shot if you're in a high-risk group. Otherwise, your choice, for which you should never be punished.
  - jjeaff 5y ago
    Ya, and I bet that supercut cut out all the context and key parts of what they said. I've seen one showing Kamala Harris saying she wouldn't take a vaccine that Trump told her to take. But they cut out the next sentence where she says, but if our health officials and doctors and scientists say it's safe to take it, then I will.

by donw 5y ago

ziml77 5y ago

That worked in Japan because the culture there is far less selfish. People there would already wear masks when sick to avoid spreading it to others. But in the US, you have people who continue to make arguments about how it's stupid to force them to wear a mask because others are afraid of getting COVID. I saw a really bad meme about that the other day where one person was walking with an umbrella and angrily telling someone else to also use an umbrella so the person with the umbrella wouldn't get wet.

loopz 5y ago
In Japan, commandments works. In US and other countries not that well. Along with humility and information, people also need to sense the care.
donw 5y ago
> That worked in Japan because the culture there is far less selfish. No, and I'm tired of hearing this trope. People are plenty selfish everywhere. Japan works because Japanese government understands trust. So does China, and for the same reasons.

ferrumfist 5y ago

You can't possibly compare the USA's culture to Japan's. The USA is incredibly individualistic and many Americans hold deep-seated distrust of any government/societal institutions. Japan's culture is entirely communal. You don't talk on a cellphone on the train because it may inconvenience other passengers. You wear a mask when you're sick so you don't inconvenience others. So much of Japan's culture is rooted in making sure you aren't disrupting the general flow of society. You can talk about "improper messaging" in the USA, but that rests squarely with President Trump. The entire point of that position is to be the figurehead of America and a unifying presence when things go wrong. He did not, and it caused irreparable damage to the trust and cohesiveness of the public early on in the pandemic.

loopz 5y ago
Yet, why support your oppression? The entire left/right ideas are pretty lame.
- donw 5y ago
  > The entire left/right ideas are pretty lame. Agreed. It's a poor model, and doesn't reflect the current reality.
donw 5y ago
> You can't possibly compare the USA's culture to Japan's. I can and shall. > Much of Japan's culture is rooted in making sure you aren't disrupting the general flow of society. It may surprise you to learn that the US was like this before. And that Japan probably won't be in forty years' time. You know that movie trope from the 70s and before, where somebody needs a car, gets in one, which is, of course, unlocked, pulls down the visor, and the keys drop into their lap? That's what it's like where I live. My town had a home invasion last week. I don't think I've ever heard of that happening here. > But that rests squarely with President Trump No. The establishment burned every ounce of credibility available to burn, succeeded in ousting Trump from office, and is now crying that everything has gone all firey like. If Trump got a Big Mac on Monday, that was proof he was a Nazi. If he didn't on Tuesday, that was more proof that he was a Nazi. Biden could nuke Dallas tomorrow and MSNBC would defend him without question. As would probably half the GOP. The problem with "winning at any cost" is the cost. Like it or not, that's the state of things in the US.

tl 5y ago

Your US section is mostly accurate (and mortifying for the "trust the government" argument) in terms of how it was mentioned, but I disagree the "Trump's vaccine" segment. The numbers of the rollout might fit that story after the fact, but doesn't make it true. Moreover, the entire odyssey of you should get this vaccine but only if you're in a very specific age or risk pool and let's punish people and hospitals who violate this set of ever-evolving poorly communicated rules did happen and might be even worse.

donw 5y ago
There's a supercut of prominent Blue Team folks -- including the Vice President! -- publicly refusing to to take "Trump's Vaccine". After Biden took office, they executed an "about face" so hard that their heads are functional gyroscopes. Totally agreed on the rest. My stance is simple: get the shot if you're in a high-risk group. Otherwise, your choice, for which you should never be punished.
- jjeaff 5y ago
  Ya, and I bet that supercut cut out all the context and key parts of what they said. I've seen one showing Kamala Harris saying she wouldn't take a vaccine that Trump told her to take. But they cut out the next sentence where she says, but if our health officials and doctors and scientists say it's safe to take it, then I will.