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The Eastern Roman Empire fell in 1453 when the Seljuk Turks conquered Constantinople. The Ottoman Emperor's titles included Kaysar-i-Rum. I can't remember the d
by barry-cotter 5y ago
The Eastern Roman Empire fell in 1453 when the Seljuk Turks conquered Constantinople. The Ottoman Emperor's titles included Kaysar-i-Rum. I can't remember the dates but when the Greeks were conquering Crete their co-linguists described the conquerors as Hellenes while they were Romans.
If you go by the criterion of (primary) self-identification there were Romans until the 1800s at least. By unbroken institutional continuity with the bureaucracy of Empire you can argue over whether it ended in 1453 or 1922.
- rsynnott 5y agoI mean, you could go further; there’s a not-totally-bonkers argument that the Catholic Church still provides continuity today.
- prox 5y ago1922? What institutions were that of the Empire?
- TomK32 5y ago1922 is the year Kaiser Karl I. of Austria-Hungary died.
- barry-cotter 5y agoThe Empire of Rum [Rome], with its Kaysar [Caesar], ended in that year. The Ottoman Empire was abolished then.
- pvg 5y agoSure, but if you take an even mildly expansive definition of 'Roman' then Romans just straight up built the Hagia Sophia and the crusaders of the 4th crusade are even less Roman so maybe we're mostly longwindedly agreeing?
- barry-cotter 5y agoDifference of emphasis. You seem to think the "Byzantines" were in some important sense not Roman, or that there's room for argument that they weren't. I disagree. They knew themselves as Romans for the excelent reason that they were citizens of the Empire.
- cat199 5y agofrom the other perspective, the only ones not calling them roman are 'us' ... so there's that