5 ms·

Surely the hiring issue is a market inefficiency, then, no? There's got to be plenty of engineers out there, but maybe not for typical startup cash/equity struc

by vladf 5y ago

Surely the hiring issue is a market inefficiency, then, no? There's got to be plenty of engineers out there, but maybe not for typical startup cash/equity structures.

actually_a_dog 5y ago
When it comes to startups in particular, it might be a case of actual shortage. Not everyone wants to work at a startup, particularly in the earlier stages, even if comp is similar to what one could get in a public company. Couple that with the relative rarity of actually good engineers among the population of qualified software engineers, the fact that you don't want to hire juniors or new grads at very early stages, and the general difficulty of hiring SWEs, and, although I'd like to see data before making a definitive statement, I can see how it could be many times more difficult to hire at a small startup than a larger and more established company. Does anybody happen to know whether data on this actually exists or not?
sskates 5y ago
I believe a few things are happening: 1) The number of software engineers is growing quickly, but the market for software is growing even more quickly. So engineers are becoming more scarce relatively speaking and that pushes prices up. I don't know that I'd call that an inefficiency so much as markets working properly! OTOH, that's also why you see the explosion of coding bootcamps and alternative paths into the industry. Both my brother and sister in law did a coding bootcamp and 2x'd their salaries in 6 months! I don't think there's any sort of career investment you can make that comes close. So yeah- we haven't reached an equilibrium yet, there needs to be a lot more software engineers, and everyone is struggling to hire. 2) The market is not efficient at pricing top engineering talent in particular. It's hard for most companies to tell who the top engineers are (pg has written extensively about this). As a result, top engineers are underpaid by and large across the industry and companies that figure that out can get an edge. I've always said I'm for paying 10x engineering talent 2x above the average as you're getting 5x the value! You see a lot of FAANG taking this approach as well which is why salaries for the top end for engineers is growing at an outsized rate relative to engineers as a whole.
- cutemonster 5y ago
  Makes me curious about your recruitment process :-) (I agree with everything you wrote btw) For example, screening questions? Work sample? Take home? Coding interview? Whiteboard or type on computer or something else? (Best wishes btw)

by vladf 5y ago

Surely the hiring issue is a market inefficiency, then, no? There's got to be plenty of engineers out there, but maybe not for typical startup cash/equity structures.

actually_a_dog 5y ago

When it comes to startups in particular, it might be a case of actual shortage. Not everyone wants to work at a startup, particularly in the earlier stages, even if comp is similar to what one could get in a public company. Couple that with the relative rarity of actually good engineers among the population of qualified software engineers, the fact that you don't want to hire juniors or new grads at very early stages, and the general difficulty of hiring SWEs, and, although I'd like to see data before making a definitive statement, I can see how it could be many times more difficult to hire at a small startup than a larger and more established company. Does anybody happen to know whether data on this actually exists or not?

sskates 5y ago

I believe a few things are happening: 1) The number of software engineers is growing quickly, but the market for software is growing even more quickly. So engineers are becoming more scarce relatively speaking and that pushes prices up. I don't know that I'd call that an inefficiency so much as markets working properly! OTOH, that's also why you see the explosion of coding bootcamps and alternative paths into the industry. Both my brother and sister in law did a coding bootcamp and 2x'd their salaries in 6 months! I don't think there's any sort of career investment you can make that comes close. So yeah- we haven't reached an equilibrium yet, there needs to be a lot more software engineers, and everyone is struggling to hire. 2) The market is not efficient at pricing top engineering talent in particular. It's hard for most companies to tell who the top engineers are (pg has written extensively about this). As a result, top engineers are underpaid by and large across the industry and companies that figure that out can get an edge. I've always said I'm for paying 10x engineering talent 2x above the average as you're getting 5x the value! You see a lot of FAANG taking this approach as well which is why salaries for the top end for engineers is growing at an outsized rate relative to engineers as a whole.

cutemonster 5y ago
Makes me curious about your recruitment process :-) (I agree with everything you wrote btw) For example, screening questions? Work sample? Take home? Coding interview? Whiteboard or type on computer or something else? (Best wishes btw)