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Providing proper information and treating people like adults might succeed more than "just take the damn vaccine, mmmkay?". It does require responsible adults

by loopz 5y ago

Providing proper information and treating people like adults might succeed more than "just take the damn vaccine, mmmkay?". It does require responsible adults though, but in many countries there were fertile ground for open debate.

nindalf 5y ago
No information is proper enough. Like the second comment from top points out, the goalposts are always shifted. Information on vaccine studies? Rushed. Information on vaccine rollouts from countries that have reached 75-80% of the entire population vaccinated? Faked/not applicable. Information comparing cases/deaths in US states with neighbouring states having higher vaccination rates? Invalid. Look, be honest here. There’s more than enough information out there and none of it is being hidden. Hundreds of millions have gotten the shot and the benefits are abundantly clear. For example - “Despite Delta, severe covid-19 is much rarer among vaccinated Britons“ (https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2021/09/18/despite-delta-severe-covid-19-is-much-rarer-among-vaccinated-britons https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2021/09/18/despite-...). But this doesn’t make a difference. Despite all this information being available, people will still rely on faulty information like “Nicki Minaj’s cousin’s friend became impotent after he took the vaccine”. FWIW, the White House treated Minaj like an adult and reached out to have a conversation with her. But she didn’t change her mind. > treat people like adults If they were intelligent adults they’d be able to evaluate the data for themselves. Instead they watch YouTube videos telling them to “do their own research” followed by checking out Nicki Minaj’s tweets. Go ahead. Try having an open debate with Nicki Minaj or Kyrie Irving or any vaccine skeptic with millions of followers. Let me know how that goes.
- freebuju 5y ago
  I think the bigger point is the lack of trust in our public health rather than laying out the facts. The same way any person who is pro-vax will argue how beneficial it is, is the same way a person who doesn't believe it is beneficial to them will argue it out. There is no one clear science, one clear truth to rule them all in this pandemic. This is the only truth I have come to terms with. I see anti-vaxxers with their straw man arguments as just people who have no trust in the government and the health authorities. Can't blame them though, since the pandemic started almost 2 years ago, there is still a lot we don't know about it's actual origins.
- donw 5y ago
  Trust flows both ways. From the get-go, the messaging should have been: "This is an evolving situation, and we're doing our best to keep up. Right now, our recommendations are X. As we learn, those are going to change." That's what Japan did. Humility and respect. It worked. In the US, it was: "Masks don't work! You're too stupid to even know how to use one properly. Save them for nurses. No, wait, if you don't wear your mask, you're literally killing grandma! We'll arrest your goat-fucking inbred ass if you don't mask up. Trump's vaccine? You'd have to be a colossal moron to take that experimental garbage. Not for me! No, wait, it's Biden's vaccine now? If you don't get the jab, you're Hitler Squared! Don't want it? You're fired!" How well this worked is left as an exercise for the reader.
  - ziml77 5y ago
    That worked in Japan because the culture there is far less selfish. People there would already wear masks when sick to avoid spreading it to others. But in the US, you have people who continue to make arguments about how it's stupid to force them to wear a mask because others are afraid of getting COVID. I saw a really bad meme about that the other day where one person was walking with an umbrella and angrily telling someone else to also use an umbrella so the person with the umbrella wouldn't get wet.
    - loopz 5y ago
      In Japan, commandments works. In US and other countries not that well. Along with humility and information, people also need to sense the care.
    - donw 5y ago
      > That worked in Japan because the culture there is far less selfish. No, and I'm tired of hearing this trope. People are plenty selfish everywhere. Japan works because Japanese government understands trust. So does China, and for the same reasons.
  - ferrumfist 5y ago
    You can't possibly compare the USA's culture to Japan's. The USA is incredibly individualistic and many Americans hold deep-seated distrust of any government/societal institutions. Japan's culture is entirely communal. You don't talk on a cellphone on the train because it may inconvenience other passengers. You wear a mask when you're sick so you don't inconvenience others. So much of Japan's culture is rooted in making sure you aren't disrupting the general flow of society. You can talk about "improper messaging" in the USA, but that rests squarely with President Trump. The entire point of that position is to be the figurehead of America and a unifying presence when things go wrong. He did not, and it caused irreparable damage to the trust and cohesiveness of the public early on in the pandemic.

by loopz 5y ago

nindalf 5y ago

No information is proper enough. Like the second comment from top points out, the goalposts are always shifted. Information on vaccine studies? Rushed. Information on vaccine rollouts from countries that have reached 75-80% of the entire population vaccinated? Faked/not applicable. Information comparing cases/deaths in US states with neighbouring states having higher vaccination rates? Invalid. Look, be honest here. There’s more than enough information out there and none of it is being hidden. Hundreds of millions have gotten the shot and the benefits are abundantly clear. For example - “Despite Delta, severe covid-19 is much rarer among vaccinated Britons“ (https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2021/09/18/despite-delta-severe-covid-19-is-much-rarer-among-vaccinated-britons https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2021/09/18/despite-...). But this doesn’t make a difference. Despite all this information being available, people will still rely on faulty information like “Nicki Minaj’s cousin’s friend became impotent after he took the vaccine”. FWIW, the White House treated Minaj like an adult and reached out to have a conversation with her. But she didn’t change her mind. > treat people like adults If they were intelligent adults they’d be able to evaluate the data for themselves. Instead they watch YouTube videos telling them to “do their own research” followed by checking out Nicki Minaj’s tweets. Go ahead. Try having an open debate with Nicki Minaj or Kyrie Irving or any vaccine skeptic with millions of followers. Let me know how that goes.

freebuju 5y ago
I think the bigger point is the lack of trust in our public health rather than laying out the facts. The same way any person who is pro-vax will argue how beneficial it is, is the same way a person who doesn't believe it is beneficial to them will argue it out. There is no one clear science, one clear truth to rule them all in this pandemic. This is the only truth I have come to terms with. I see anti-vaxxers with their straw man arguments as just people who have no trust in the government and the health authorities. Can't blame them though, since the pandemic started almost 2 years ago, there is still a lot we don't know about it's actual origins.
donw 5y ago
Trust flows both ways. From the get-go, the messaging should have been: "This is an evolving situation, and we're doing our best to keep up. Right now, our recommendations are X. As we learn, those are going to change." That's what Japan did. Humility and respect. It worked. In the US, it was: "Masks don't work! You're too stupid to even know how to use one properly. Save them for nurses. No, wait, if you don't wear your mask, you're literally killing grandma! We'll arrest your goat-fucking inbred ass if you don't mask up. Trump's vaccine? You'd have to be a colossal moron to take that experimental garbage. Not for me! No, wait, it's Biden's vaccine now? If you don't get the jab, you're Hitler Squared! Don't want it? You're fired!" How well this worked is left as an exercise for the reader.
- ziml77 5y ago
  That worked in Japan because the culture there is far less selfish. People there would already wear masks when sick to avoid spreading it to others. But in the US, you have people who continue to make arguments about how it's stupid to force them to wear a mask because others are afraid of getting COVID. I saw a really bad meme about that the other day where one person was walking with an umbrella and angrily telling someone else to also use an umbrella so the person with the umbrella wouldn't get wet.
  - loopz 5y ago
    In Japan, commandments works. In US and other countries not that well. Along with humility and information, people also need to sense the care.
  - donw 5y ago
    > That worked in Japan because the culture there is far less selfish. No, and I'm tired of hearing this trope. People are plenty selfish everywhere. Japan works because Japanese government understands trust. So does China, and for the same reasons.
- ferrumfist 5y ago
  You can't possibly compare the USA's culture to Japan's. The USA is incredibly individualistic and many Americans hold deep-seated distrust of any government/societal institutions. Japan's culture is entirely communal. You don't talk on a cellphone on the train because it may inconvenience other passengers. You wear a mask when you're sick so you don't inconvenience others. So much of Japan's culture is rooted in making sure you aren't disrupting the general flow of society. You can talk about "improper messaging" in the USA, but that rests squarely with President Trump. The entire point of that position is to be the figurehead of America and a unifying presence when things go wrong. He did not, and it caused irreparable damage to the trust and cohesiveness of the public early on in the pandemic.