6 ms·

Cloudflare will charge per request over a certain threshold, like S3 does for API calls, so it won’t be just 13 cents depending on the rate of requests coming i

by sfredd 5y ago

Cloudflare will charge per request over a certain threshold, like S3 does for API calls, so it won’t be just 13 cents depending on the rate of requests coming in. “R2 will zero-rate infrequent storage operations under a threshold — currently planned to be in the single digit requests per second range. Above this range, R2 will charge significantly less per-operation than the major providers. Our object storage will be extremely inexpensive for infrequent access and yet capable of and cheaper than major incumbent providers at scale.” Source: https://blog.cloudflare.com/introducing-r2-object-storage/ https://blog.cloudflare.com/introducing-r2-object-storage/

dannyw 5y ago
Per operation charges, even if at the same level as EC2, would still be substantially cheaper. The lack of 9c per GB to egress is the killer. I can rent unlimited 250mbit servers for 14 euros a month from Scaleway. It is truly unmetered; I've been a customer for years and do about 40 terabytes of egress a month on this box. AWS would charge me $3800 for the egress alone (using the calculator). That is certainly almost all pure margin for them, when Scaleway will happily let me egress 40TB a month for years on 13.99 euro per month (plus I get a low-spec bare metal server at this price too).
- sfredd 5y ago
  Not disagreeing with you! Just pointing out that there will be additional costs over just 13 cents. Excited to check out R2.
  - prirun 5y ago
    Even on S3, operations costs are a very tiny fraction of bandwidth costs: https://aws.amazon.com/s3/pricing/ https://aws.amazon.com/s3/pricing/ https://www.backblaze.com/b2/b2-transactions-price.html https://www.backblaze.com/b2/b2-transactions-price.html
- kondro 5y ago
  Lack of egress charge is great for write once, read a lot. But for write once, read a handful of times (e.g. a webhook system that basically is write once, read once of <32KB objects with long history for either redelivery attempts or replaying the entire stream for a point of time), request prices end up being the biggest cost.
  - l-lousy 5y ago
    Not if, as R2 says, they only charge for objects that exceed a single digit request per second threshold. Your write once read once model still only costs as much as the storage at rest would.
    - kondro 5y ago
      I don’t think they mentioned this would be “per object” and I assumed they meant per account. Free per object requests is super game-able. Want 1000 free requests per second, just rotate through 100 identical objects.
      - piaste 5y ago
        But then you're multiplying your storage costs 100x, aren't you?
        kondro 5y ago
        Which are often significantly lower than request (and egress) charges. 1,000 reads per second is 2.6 billion per month. At S3 prices, that wound cost around $1,040. 100x storage is pretty minimal to achieve this. For example: 100x 128KiB = $0.000192/month 100x 10MiB = $0.015/month 100x 1GiB = $1.50/month
- judge2020 5y ago
  > That is certainly almost all pure margin for them, Yes. While there is a pretty hefty up-front cost to all the hardware and fiber interconnects AWS makes between servers, between AZs, and to the internet (probably in the millions per-dc including labor), the margin they charge per-gb is insanely high to the point where they likely made all of it back within the first day it was installed, with any extra usage in the years after being pure margin. https://blog.cloudflare.com/aws-egregious-egress/ https://blog.cloudflare.com/aws-egregious-egress/
- celsoazevedo 5y ago
  > I can rent unlimited 250mbit servers for 14 euros a month from Scaleway. If we're looking only at egress, we can even find cheaper alternatives. OVH, for example, offers VPS' with 500Mbps unlimited for 10 euros a month, 1Gbps for 20 euros, etc.
  - nobleach 5y ago
    I wish this were available in the US...
    - tyingq 5y ago
      Seems like it is. https://us.ovhcloud.com/order/vps/?v=3#/vps/build?selection=~(range~'Essential~pricingMode~'default) https://us.ovhcloud.com/order/vps/?v=3#/vps/build?selection=...
      - nobleach 5y ago
        My apologies. I meant Scaleway. I was looking more for the k8s integration.
        tyingq 5y ago
        Ah. Ok. There's this: https://us.ovhcloud.com/public-cloud/kubernetes/ https://us.ovhcloud.com/public-cloud/kubernetes/ Though I don't know how well it compares. Edit: pricing: https://us.ovhcloud.com/public-cloud/prices/#containers-and-orchestration https://us.ovhcloud.com/public-cloud/prices/#containers-and-...
    - celsoazevedo 5y ago
      There's two locations in the US (only available via the US website/OVHcloud - I think) and at least one in Canada.
    - vel0city 5y ago
      There are VPS providers in the US that offer unmetered bandwidth. One quick example I could think of was Hostgator. https://www.hostgator.com/vps-hosting https://www.hostgator.com/vps-hosting
QuinnyPig 5y ago
Yeah, I ignored request charges just because CloudFlare was non-specific. I also ignored them on the AWS side; a million S3 GET requests would cost 40¢.
- eastdakota 5y ago
  We’re still finalizing per request pricing. But we want to not charge anything in most cases (<1 op/sec). And even over threshold it will be at least 10% less than S3’s per op price.
  - QuinnyPig 5y ago
    That makes sense and is fair. The only times I encounter clients with S3 request pricing problems is when they’re doing something truly… unfortunate.
kondro 5y ago
Yeah, read and write request pricing is still the big unanswered question here. It’s great that they are happy to have a free tier, but <10RPS is only <777k per day constant. Great for small uses, but pretty easy to hit with even medium object store use-cases. My current guess would be somewhere around S3’s $5/million writes and $0.40/million reads (with maybe a 20% discount like they’ve done with other products). Hope I’m wrong and it’s a lot lower though. I’m probably in the minority, but I want to use an object store like this as a key/value store for <128KiB objects (write once, read a handful of times and then expire in 14-90 days). I’d gladly pay egress, but usually the request prices (for S3 or DynamoDB) become pretty cost-prohibitive. Even services like Wasabi that, on the face of it look perfect, end up being unsuitable because the T&Cs limit maximum egress to total monthly storage volume (making the write once, read more than once for every short-lived object pretty difficult). I’d gladly pay for a service with both “reasonable” egress and “reasonable” request prices instead of everyone trying to weight their service to one or the other.
- babelfish 5y ago
  Check out Cloudflare Workers KV or Durable Objects :-)
  - kondro 5y ago
    Sorry, should've specifically mentioned them. Workers KV is also $5/million writes and $0.50/million reads[1] (more expensive than S3 which is $0.40/million reads) and often DynamoDB (which is $1.25/million 1KB writes and $0.25/million reads scaling down to 1/7th that if you use provisioned instead of on-demand). Workers KV is also eventually-consistent with no guarantee of read-after-write, which is a pretty big limitation compared to alternatives (S3 even has immediately-consistent list operations now after write). Durable Objects Storage is $1/million writes at 4KB and $0.20/million reads[2], which is pretty good. But you can also only access it via a Durable Object which limits its usage (especially as neither Durable Objects or its storage are in a production state with final pricing yet) and means you need to also pay for the Durable Object runtime on top fo the Storage pricing whenever you want to access that data. [1] https://developers.cloudflare.com/workers/platform/pricing#paid-plan-1 https://developers.cloudflare.com/workers/platform/pricing#p... [2] https://blog.cloudflare.com/durable-objects-open-beta/ https://blog.cloudflare.com/durable-objects-open-beta/
DoctorOW 5y ago
Keep in mind in this thread's example, there are a million downloads in one month. Spread evenly this is less than 1 RPS.
ksec 5y ago
I am wondering how does request per second works with open connection. Doesn't that means you could have file hosting and get free bandwidth as long as the proxy infront of it only allows 10 Request per second to R2?

by sfredd 5y ago

dannyw 5y ago

Per operation charges, even if at the same level as EC2, would still be substantially cheaper. The lack of 9c per GB to egress is the killer. I can rent unlimited 250mbit servers for 14 euros a month from Scaleway. It is truly unmetered; I've been a customer for years and do about 40 terabytes of egress a month on this box. AWS would charge me $3800 for the egress alone (using the calculator). That is certainly almost all pure margin for them, when Scaleway will happily let me egress 40TB a month for years on 13.99 euro per month (plus I get a low-spec bare metal server at this price too).

sfredd 5y ago
Not disagreeing with you! Just pointing out that there will be additional costs over just 13 cents. Excited to check out R2.
- prirun 5y ago
  Even on S3, operations costs are a very tiny fraction of bandwidth costs: https://aws.amazon.com/s3/pricing/ https://aws.amazon.com/s3/pricing/ https://www.backblaze.com/b2/b2-transactions-price.html https://www.backblaze.com/b2/b2-transactions-price.html
kondro 5y ago
Lack of egress charge is great for write once, read a lot. But for write once, read a handful of times (e.g. a webhook system that basically is write once, read once of <32KB objects with long history for either redelivery attempts or replaying the entire stream for a point of time), request prices end up being the biggest cost.
- l-lousy 5y ago
  Not if, as R2 says, they only charge for objects that exceed a single digit request per second threshold. Your write once read once model still only costs as much as the storage at rest would.
  - kondro 5y ago
    I don’t think they mentioned this would be “per object” and I assumed they meant per account. Free per object requests is super game-able. Want 1000 free requests per second, just rotate through 100 identical objects.
    - piaste 5y ago
      But then you're multiplying your storage costs 100x, aren't you?
      - kondro 5y ago
        Which are often significantly lower than request (and egress) charges. 1,000 reads per second is 2.6 billion per month. At S3 prices, that wound cost around $1,040. 100x storage is pretty minimal to achieve this. For example: 100x 128KiB = $0.000192/month 100x 10MiB = $0.015/month 100x 1GiB = $1.50/month
judge2020 5y ago
> That is certainly almost all pure margin for them, Yes. While there is a pretty hefty up-front cost to all the hardware and fiber interconnects AWS makes between servers, between AZs, and to the internet (probably in the millions per-dc including labor), the margin they charge per-gb is insanely high to the point where they likely made all of it back within the first day it was installed, with any extra usage in the years after being pure margin. https://blog.cloudflare.com/aws-egregious-egress/ https://blog.cloudflare.com/aws-egregious-egress/
celsoazevedo 5y ago
> I can rent unlimited 250mbit servers for 14 euros a month from Scaleway. If we're looking only at egress, we can even find cheaper alternatives. OVH, for example, offers VPS' with 500Mbps unlimited for 10 euros a month, 1Gbps for 20 euros, etc.
- nobleach 5y ago
  I wish this were available in the US...
  - tyingq 5y ago
    Seems like it is. https://us.ovhcloud.com/order/vps/?v=3#/vps/build?selection=~(range~'Essential~pricingMode~'default) https://us.ovhcloud.com/order/vps/?v=3#/vps/build?selection=...
    - nobleach 5y ago
      My apologies. I meant Scaleway. I was looking more for the k8s integration.
      - tyingq 5y ago
        Ah. Ok. There's this: https://us.ovhcloud.com/public-cloud/kubernetes/ https://us.ovhcloud.com/public-cloud/kubernetes/ Though I don't know how well it compares. Edit: pricing: https://us.ovhcloud.com/public-cloud/prices/#containers-and-orchestration https://us.ovhcloud.com/public-cloud/prices/#containers-and-...
  - celsoazevedo 5y ago
    There's two locations in the US (only available via the US website/OVHcloud - I think) and at least one in Canada.
  - vel0city 5y ago
    There are VPS providers in the US that offer unmetered bandwidth. One quick example I could think of was Hostgator. https://www.hostgator.com/vps-hosting https://www.hostgator.com/vps-hosting

QuinnyPig 5y ago

Yeah, I ignored request charges just because CloudFlare was non-specific. I also ignored them on the AWS side; a million S3 GET requests would cost 40¢.

eastdakota 5y ago
We’re still finalizing per request pricing. But we want to not charge anything in most cases (<1 op/sec). And even over threshold it will be at least 10% less than S3’s per op price.
- QuinnyPig 5y ago
  That makes sense and is fair. The only times I encounter clients with S3 request pricing problems is when they’re doing something truly… unfortunate.

kondro 5y ago

Yeah, read and write request pricing is still the big unanswered question here. It’s great that they are happy to have a free tier, but <10RPS is only <777k per day constant. Great for small uses, but pretty easy to hit with even medium object store use-cases. My current guess would be somewhere around S3’s $5/million writes and $0.40/million reads (with maybe a 20% discount like they’ve done with other products). Hope I’m wrong and it’s a lot lower though. I’m probably in the minority, but I want to use an object store like this as a key/value store for <128KiB objects (write once, read a handful of times and then expire in 14-90 days). I’d gladly pay egress, but usually the request prices (for S3 or DynamoDB) become pretty cost-prohibitive. Even services like Wasabi that, on the face of it look perfect, end up being unsuitable because the T&Cs limit maximum egress to total monthly storage volume (making the write once, read more than once for every short-lived object pretty difficult). I’d gladly pay for a service with both “reasonable” egress and “reasonable” request prices instead of everyone trying to weight their service to one or the other.

babelfish 5y ago
Check out Cloudflare Workers KV or Durable Objects :-)
- kondro 5y ago
  Sorry, should've specifically mentioned them. Workers KV is also $5/million writes and $0.50/million reads[1] (more expensive than S3 which is $0.40/million reads) and often DynamoDB (which is $1.25/million 1KB writes and $0.25/million reads scaling down to 1/7th that if you use provisioned instead of on-demand). Workers KV is also eventually-consistent with no guarantee of read-after-write, which is a pretty big limitation compared to alternatives (S3 even has immediately-consistent list operations now after write). Durable Objects Storage is $1/million writes at 4KB and $0.20/million reads[2], which is pretty good. But you can also only access it via a Durable Object which limits its usage (especially as neither Durable Objects or its storage are in a production state with final pricing yet) and means you need to also pay for the Durable Object runtime on top fo the Storage pricing whenever you want to access that data. [1] https://developers.cloudflare.com/workers/platform/pricing#paid-plan-1 https://developers.cloudflare.com/workers/platform/pricing#p... [2] https://blog.cloudflare.com/durable-objects-open-beta/ https://blog.cloudflare.com/durable-objects-open-beta/

DoctorOW 5y ago

Keep in mind in this thread's example, there are a million downloads in one month. Spread evenly this is less than 1 RPS.

ksec 5y ago

I am wondering how does request per second works with open connection. Doesn't that means you could have file hosting and get free bandwidth as long as the proxy infront of it only allows 10 Request per second to R2?