3 ms·

Chaos arises in very simple (Newtonian) systems, e.g. the double pendulum[1]. 1. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_pendulum https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wik

Chaos arises in very simple (Newtonian) systems, e.g. the double pendulum[1]. 1. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_pendulum https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_pendulum

eru 5y ago
Yes, Chaos arises in Newtonian systems just fine. They are non-linear. But Quantum Mechanics is linear. See eg https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/33344/is-the-universe-linear-if-so-why https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/33344/is-the-uni... for a discussion, and https://www.scottaaronson.com/papers/island.pdf https://www.scottaaronson.com/papers/island.pdf for a longer treatment.
- goldenkey 5y ago
  QM being linear doesn't make the universe linear. Schrodinger's equation doesn't work across measurements (or universes.) And if you try to weasel out of that by saying we will describe the multiverse instead, you have just created the unexplainable phenomena of being in a specific universe, with no way to accurately describe the process behind the random choice of the universe you reside in.
  - eru 5y ago
    Measurements (and 'universes') are part of interpretations of QM. Not sure they are properly part of QM. I see what you mean though. I'm not sure whether eg the Born rule is enough by itself to explain how (non-linear) chaos arises from linear QM.
  - Joker_vD 5y ago
    > unexplainable phenomena of being in a specific universe One universe has "observer" (a bunch of variables, really) in one state, another has it in different state. Those variables encode some information about themselves, so indeed in different universes the different "versions" of the observer are different, and each perceive it as universe randomly deciding to chose their version of existence. So what? We're parts of the physical reality so trying to describing physics from the point of view of an out-of-universe observer, while psychologically attractive, is ultimately futile: in QM, such approach breaks very quickly.

Chaos arises in very simple (Newtonian) systems, e.g. the double pendulum[1]. 1. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_pendulum https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_pendulum

eru 5y ago

Yes, Chaos arises in Newtonian systems just fine. They are non-linear. But Quantum Mechanics is linear. See eg https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/33344/is-the-universe-linear-if-so-why https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/33344/is-the-uni... for a discussion, and https://www.scottaaronson.com/papers/island.pdf https://www.scottaaronson.com/papers/island.pdf for a longer treatment.

goldenkey 5y ago
QM being linear doesn't make the universe linear. Schrodinger's equation doesn't work across measurements (or universes.) And if you try to weasel out of that by saying we will describe the multiverse instead, you have just created the unexplainable phenomena of being in a specific universe, with no way to accurately describe the process behind the random choice of the universe you reside in.
- eru 5y ago
  Measurements (and 'universes') are part of interpretations of QM. Not sure they are properly part of QM. I see what you mean though. I'm not sure whether eg the Born rule is enough by itself to explain how (non-linear) chaos arises from linear QM.
- Joker_vD 5y ago
  > unexplainable phenomena of being in a specific universe One universe has "observer" (a bunch of variables, really) in one state, another has it in different state. Those variables encode some information about themselves, so indeed in different universes the different "versions" of the observer are different, and each perceive it as universe randomly deciding to chose their version of existence. So what? We're parts of the physical reality so trying to describing physics from the point of view of an out-of-universe observer, while psychologically attractive, is ultimately futile: in QM, such approach breaks very quickly.