4 ms·

You're right. We have such a weird system of government. We are literally paying the salaries of these people. If you had an employee that cost you 100k or what

You're right. We have such a weird system of government. We are literally paying the salaries of these people. If you had an employee that cost you 100k or whatever per year, and when you asked what they did today they told you they hassled a guy with an obscene bumper sticker, would you want to keep paying them? But somehow, police departments keep being able to justify and apparently receive their budgets despite cops doing all kinds of wasteful stuff that in no way contributes to public safety. Accountability should be through department budgets, i.e. they should be cut it police are wasting taxpayer money. But somehow that doesnt happen

jdmichal 5y ago
Laws are a moral construct. Enforcing morality as it's encoded in law is part of policing. This is definitely a case to blame the law and lawmakers, not the officer.
- robbedpeter 5y ago
  It's both. There are states with dumb laws on the books, such as "seven or more Indians are considered a raiding or war party and it is legal to shoot them" in Montana. It's legal cruft, and needs to be formally repealed. Police officers use judgement and selective enforcement all the time, seemingly whenever it benefits them, and this case was no different. The officers wanted to rain hell on this guy, and they justified it with legal cruft.
- version_five 5y ago
  What part of what I wrote made you think my comment had to do with blaming the officer. It's a serious question, I notice people almost never understand my comments and I'd rather that wasn't the case. I'm saying police budgets should be cut if this is how they use their people, and it surprises me that there is no feedback that actually causes these cuts despite evidence that officers are wasting their time on things like in this article.
  - jdmichal 5y ago
    I believe I understood perfectly. But it is not mine or yours or the officers' choice to decide that this law is not worth enforcing. I mean, that is an opinion you can have, and is worthy of having, and especially worthy of advocating for change. If a law is on the books, then it should be enforced. If it should no longer be enforced, then it should no longer be a law on the books. And of course I realize this is idealistic, and likely not realistic because lawmakers pretty much never devote time to things like cleaning up such things, short of public outcry.
throwaway0a5e 5y ago
And this is why we should privatize "normal patrol work" the same way we privatize the construction of sewers and many other municipal services. Look at private security like you'd find at any venue with tens of thousands of rowdy drunks. It has basically none of the problems that municipal policing does because the incentive structure isn't broken. The employers will readily fire non-performers or employees who are a lawsuit waiting to happen. The venues that hire the companies can find replacements if/when the companies fail to deliver what they're paid to. They also don't waste money on MRAPs. Imagine a private security officer wasting time on a vulgar bumper sticker let alone arresting someone. They'd get chewed out or maybe fired for exposing the employer to liability for an unlawful arrest. That just doesn't happen to government police. The broken incentives in policing cannot be fixed so long as they are getting their pay stubs on the same letterhead as the judges, DAs and city officials. They need to be kicked out of "the club" so that they can be properly scrutinized.

jdmichal 5y ago

Laws are a moral construct. Enforcing morality as it's encoded in law is part of policing. This is definitely a case to blame the law and lawmakers, not the officer.

robbedpeter 5y ago
It's both. There are states with dumb laws on the books, such as "seven or more Indians are considered a raiding or war party and it is legal to shoot them" in Montana. It's legal cruft, and needs to be formally repealed. Police officers use judgement and selective enforcement all the time, seemingly whenever it benefits them, and this case was no different. The officers wanted to rain hell on this guy, and they justified it with legal cruft.
version_five 5y ago
What part of what I wrote made you think my comment had to do with blaming the officer. It's a serious question, I notice people almost never understand my comments and I'd rather that wasn't the case. I'm saying police budgets should be cut if this is how they use their people, and it surprises me that there is no feedback that actually causes these cuts despite evidence that officers are wasting their time on things like in this article.
- jdmichal 5y ago
  I believe I understood perfectly. But it is not mine or yours or the officers' choice to decide that this law is not worth enforcing. I mean, that is an opinion you can have, and is worthy of having, and especially worthy of advocating for change. If a law is on the books, then it should be enforced. If it should no longer be enforced, then it should no longer be a law on the books. And of course I realize this is idealistic, and likely not realistic because lawmakers pretty much never devote time to things like cleaning up such things, short of public outcry.

throwaway0a5e 5y ago

And this is why we should privatize "normal patrol work" the same way we privatize the construction of sewers and many other municipal services. Look at private security like you'd find at any venue with tens of thousands of rowdy drunks. It has basically none of the problems that municipal policing does because the incentive structure isn't broken. The employers will readily fire non-performers or employees who are a lawsuit waiting to happen. The venues that hire the companies can find replacements if/when the companies fail to deliver what they're paid to. They also don't waste money on MRAPs. Imagine a private security officer wasting time on a vulgar bumper sticker let alone arresting someone. They'd get chewed out or maybe fired for exposing the employer to liability for an unlawful arrest. That just doesn't happen to government police. The broken incentives in policing cannot be fixed so long as they are getting their pay stubs on the same letterhead as the judges, DAs and city officials. They need to be kicked out of "the club" so that they can be properly scrutinized.