5 ms·

They did this a year too late, and even after doing so, waited four months to reveal the results.

bsder 5y ago
And it only works early in the disease course. So, you have to actually know you have the disease and be willing to go into to the doctor immediately to get an intravenous drug regimen. The Venn diagram between those who will do that and those who are already vaccinated is probably 100%.
- incrudible 5y ago
  Treatment options are always welcome. The vaccines are not that effective in the people who need it the most.
  - shapefrog 5y ago
    The vaccines are incredibly effective in the people who need it the most.
    - incrudible 5y ago
      The vaccine response is directly proportional to immune system function. It is not as strong[1] in older people, who are also most at risk from the disease. [1] https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-03739-1 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-03739-1 This isn't mutually exclusive with the vaccine being effective. However, we're heading towards less than 70% effectiveness (95% with fresh booster) against severe cases in the older age groups[2]. These cases add up. [2] https://www.covid-datascience.com/post/israeli-data-how-can-efficacy-vs-severe-disease-be-strong-when-60-of-hospitalized-are-vaccinated https://www.covid-datascience.com/post/israeli-data-how-can-...
      - shapefrog 5y ago
        > The vaccines are not that effective > They are 70% effective / 95% effective. Pick a lane?
        incrudible 5y ago
        These are age cohort averages. If you die of COVID despite being vaccinated, clearly the vaccine was 0% effective and early treatment could possibly have helped. Either way, 70% is not incredible in my book. The 95% from the booster will not last.
        shapefrog 5y ago
        You are confusing the outcomes of 'serious illness' - which you presented numbers for, and 'death'. Yes you are correct to say if something is effective 999,999 in a million, it is 0% effective in the 1 person. As you specifically mention deaths, but present no information regarding it here is the UK data: https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/articles/deathsinvolvingcovid19byvaccinationstatusengland/deathsoccurringbetween2januaryand2july2021 https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsde... All cohorts: 51,281 total covid deaths in the 6 months Jan - July 2021. 640 of which had 2 doses of a vaccine.
        incrudible 5y ago
        You picked a source that not age-stratified and also looks at a timeframe when many were not vaccinated in the first place. I can give you a source for deaths in the past few weeks in Israel, but only stratified between over/under 60: https://www.covid-datascience.com/post/what-do-new-israeli-data-say-about-effect-of-vaccines-boosters-vs-death-critical-severe-disease https://www.covid-datascience.com/post/what-do-new-israeli-d... The picture is similar: Efficacy of around 70% (two doses) and 95% (fresh booster) against death. This is far from "one in a million". If you age-stratified this data further, you would likely get better efficacy though.
        5y ago

And it only works early in the disease course. So, you have to actually know you have the disease and be willing to go into to the doctor immediately to get an intravenous drug regimen. The Venn diagram between those who will do that and those who are already vaccinated is probably 100%.

incrudible 5y ago
Treatment options are always welcome. The vaccines are not that effective in the people who need it the most.
- shapefrog 5y ago
  The vaccines are incredibly effective in the people who need it the most.
  - incrudible 5y ago
    The vaccine response is directly proportional to immune system function. It is not as strong[1] in older people, who are also most at risk from the disease. [1] https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-03739-1 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-03739-1 This isn't mutually exclusive with the vaccine being effective. However, we're heading towards less than 70% effectiveness (95% with fresh booster) against severe cases in the older age groups[2]. These cases add up. [2] https://www.covid-datascience.com/post/israeli-data-how-can-efficacy-vs-severe-disease-be-strong-when-60-of-hospitalized-are-vaccinated https://www.covid-datascience.com/post/israeli-data-how-can-...
    - shapefrog 5y ago
      > The vaccines are not that effective > They are 70% effective / 95% effective. Pick a lane?
      - incrudible 5y ago
        These are age cohort averages. If you die of COVID despite being vaccinated, clearly the vaccine was 0% effective and early treatment could possibly have helped. Either way, 70% is not incredible in my book. The 95% from the booster will not last.
        shapefrog 5y ago
        You are confusing the outcomes of 'serious illness' - which you presented numbers for, and 'death'. Yes you are correct to say if something is effective 999,999 in a million, it is 0% effective in the 1 person. As you specifically mention deaths, but present no information regarding it here is the UK data: https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/articles/deathsinvolvingcovid19byvaccinationstatusengland/deathsoccurringbetween2januaryand2july2021 https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsde... All cohorts: 51,281 total covid deaths in the 6 months Jan - July 2021. 640 of which had 2 doses of a vaccine.
        incrudible 5y ago
        You picked a source that not age-stratified and also looks at a timeframe when many were not vaccinated in the first place. I can give you a source for deaths in the past few weeks in Israel, but only stratified between over/under 60: https://www.covid-datascience.com/post/what-do-new-israeli-data-say-about-effect-of-vaccines-boosters-vs-death-critical-severe-disease https://www.covid-datascience.com/post/what-do-new-israeli-d... The picture is similar: Efficacy of around 70% (two doses) and 95% (fresh booster) against death. This is far from "one in a million". If you age-stratified this data further, you would likely get better efficacy though.
        5y ago