4 ms·

Why weren't obscenity laws tossed out along with the sodomy laws?

version_five 5y ago
Sodomy laws I understand have a history of used to unfairly target or persecute people. I don't agree with obscenity laws, but I think the need to get rid of the former was much more acute. (Though it supports the idea that all laws should have a sunset clause and have to be intentionally renewed rather than just stay on the books because of apathy)
- BoxOfRain 5y ago
  >(Though it supports the idea that all laws should have a sunset clause and have to be intentionally renewed rather than just stay on the books because of apathy) This is honestly one of my favourite political concepts at the moment. I first became aware of it after reading an interview of Owsley Stanley of all people, but I've seen it discussed here on HN recently too. I really think it could solve a limited but very important set of society's problems. It's also neither left nor right wing in any meaningful sense, it has a broad non-partisan appeal.
  - CamTin 5y ago
    While it may be broadly popular in the electorate across party lines, it's definitely a righty policy, since having lots of old, ambiguous laws on the books increases the discretion of police and prosecutors to deal with "troublemakers" as they see fit. Also, under the US system, many broadly popular policies (marijuana legalization, public health care option) have no realistic path to enactment, so that's far from a guarantee.
    - version_five 5y ago
      > definitely a righty policy, since having lots of old, ambiguous laws on the books increases the discretion of police and prosecutors to deal with "troublemakers" as they see fit. are you saying the right is more likely to want to hassle troublemakers? If that were true, sunset clause would be a policy of the left, no? I don't think of it as left or right, it's a libertarian policy. Right now in the US the left skews authoritarian and the right libertarian but that's not a constant (e.g Texas abortion law)
      - CamTin 5y ago
        It's righty because pro-police policies are right wing policies. Sunsetting old laws takes away power from the police, and so is a lefty policy.
- ruined 5y ago
  this idea seems interesting at first glance but it's not hard to see that everything would quickly get shoved into an omnibus "laws we wanna keep" bill that then becomes the site of a cyclical shutdown chicken, like budget bills currently
  - eigengrau5150 5y ago
    IMO, sunsetting a law means automatic repeal after its expiry date. If you want to put that law back on the books, you've got to submit a brand new bill. Furthermore, all bills should be subject to judicial review before they reach the President's desk, and the standard should be whether a literal reading of the Constitution and all its amendments (including the 9th and 10th) in contemporary English grant Congress the authority to have passed it in the first place. None of this "what did the Framers mean?" bullshit. They had their time to govern; it's our turn now. If a bill fails review, the authors should be booted out of Congress for having exceeded their authority.
op00to 5y ago
Florida
- Maursault 5y ago
  Florida Man[1][2][3] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_Man https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_Man [2] https://www.reddit.com/r/FloridaMan/ https://www.reddit.com/r/FloridaMan/ [3] https://www.theonion.com/florida-man-beats-out-heart-disease-as-nations-no-1-ki-1819569006 https://www.theonion.com/florida-man-beats-out-heart-disease...
  - eigengrau5150 5y ago
    [4] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIdntHAhTv0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIdntHAhTv0 ("Florida Man" by the Blue Öyster Cult)
- nichos 5y ago
  Florida man exists only because Florida has "sunshine laws", which allows for very transparent open records. Contrary to popular belief, it's not a lawless swamp.
  - blitzar 5y ago
    Florida fanboy detected.
N00bN00b 5y ago
Just so you know... Here you can't say that slang word for cigarette either. Because that comment where you said it to me is "dead" and doesn't allow me to reply to you. If that's not ironic, don't know what is. I don't want to be paranoid, I don't want to be an activist. But I can't even talk to you normally anymore. I constantly have to worry if I'm allowed to say certain words, I have to check my accounts to see if I was shadowbanned and I have to do that on all platforms once in a while. It's ridiculous. I don't even think any extreme thoughts and I can't even be left alone. Like.. Leave me alone, you know? The internet wasn't like this 10 years ago.

Sodomy laws I understand have a history of used to unfairly target or persecute people. I don't agree with obscenity laws, but I think the need to get rid of the former was much more acute. (Though it supports the idea that all laws should have a sunset clause and have to be intentionally renewed rather than just stay on the books because of apathy)

BoxOfRain 5y ago
>(Though it supports the idea that all laws should have a sunset clause and have to be intentionally renewed rather than just stay on the books because of apathy) This is honestly one of my favourite political concepts at the moment. I first became aware of it after reading an interview of Owsley Stanley of all people, but I've seen it discussed here on HN recently too. I really think it could solve a limited but very important set of society's problems. It's also neither left nor right wing in any meaningful sense, it has a broad non-partisan appeal.
- CamTin 5y ago
  While it may be broadly popular in the electorate across party lines, it's definitely a righty policy, since having lots of old, ambiguous laws on the books increases the discretion of police and prosecutors to deal with "troublemakers" as they see fit. Also, under the US system, many broadly popular policies (marijuana legalization, public health care option) have no realistic path to enactment, so that's far from a guarantee.
  - version_five 5y ago
    > definitely a righty policy, since having lots of old, ambiguous laws on the books increases the discretion of police and prosecutors to deal with "troublemakers" as they see fit. are you saying the right is more likely to want to hassle troublemakers? If that were true, sunset clause would be a policy of the left, no? I don't think of it as left or right, it's a libertarian policy. Right now in the US the left skews authoritarian and the right libertarian but that's not a constant (e.g Texas abortion law)
    - CamTin 5y ago
      It's righty because pro-police policies are right wing policies. Sunsetting old laws takes away power from the police, and so is a lefty policy.
ruined 5y ago
this idea seems interesting at first glance but it's not hard to see that everything would quickly get shoved into an omnibus "laws we wanna keep" bill that then becomes the site of a cyclical shutdown chicken, like budget bills currently
- eigengrau5150 5y ago
  IMO, sunsetting a law means automatic repeal after its expiry date. If you want to put that law back on the books, you've got to submit a brand new bill. Furthermore, all bills should be subject to judicial review before they reach the President's desk, and the standard should be whether a literal reading of the Constitution and all its amendments (including the 9th and 10th) in contemporary English grant Congress the authority to have passed it in the first place. None of this "what did the Framers mean?" bullshit. They had their time to govern; it's our turn now. If a bill fails review, the authors should be booted out of Congress for having exceeded their authority.

op00to 5y ago

Florida

Maursault 5y ago
Florida Man[1][2][3] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_Man https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_Man [2] https://www.reddit.com/r/FloridaMan/ https://www.reddit.com/r/FloridaMan/ [3] https://www.theonion.com/florida-man-beats-out-heart-disease-as-nations-no-1-ki-1819569006 https://www.theonion.com/florida-man-beats-out-heart-disease...
- eigengrau5150 5y ago
  [4] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIdntHAhTv0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIdntHAhTv0 ("Florida Man" by the Blue Öyster Cult)
nichos 5y ago
Florida man exists only because Florida has "sunshine laws", which allows for very transparent open records. Contrary to popular belief, it's not a lawless swamp.
- blitzar 5y ago
  Florida fanboy detected.

N00bN00b 5y ago

Just so you know... Here you can't say that slang word for cigarette either. Because that comment where you said it to me is "dead" and doesn't allow me to reply to you. If that's not ironic, don't know what is. I don't want to be paranoid, I don't want to be an activist. But I can't even talk to you normally anymore. I constantly have to worry if I'm allowed to say certain words, I have to check my accounts to see if I was shadowbanned and I have to do that on all platforms once in a while. It's ridiculous. I don't even think any extreme thoughts and I can't even be left alone. Like.. Leave me alone, you know? The internet wasn't like this 10 years ago.