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> do you think they know what the long term effects of a serious covid case is? (hint: it starts with a d and ends with "eath") This is a dangerous message to

> do you think they know what the long term effects of a serious covid case is? (hint: it starts with a d and ends with "eath") This is a dangerous message to push. The reality is that there are many lasting consequences of COVID that fall short of death but are, never the less, quite serious. The so called “long COVID” really needs to be part of the vaccine calculus because the health consequences are very much worse than the purported side effects from the vaccine. I’ve seen this kind of phenomenon first hand when it comes to drugs. As a teenager, there was lots of anti-drug messaging trying to convince us that ecstasy was dangerous. And all of it focused on scaring kids by exaggerating the risk of death. But we could see people taking it regularly and none of them were dying. And so it undercut the message. But decades later, I know a few people who’ve had depressive episodes potentially linked to heavy ecstasy use. And that consequence was never a part of the decision-making process because the authorities discredited themselves by being unnecessarily and obviously hyperbolic. We need better messaging that provides people with the full range of consequences for their choices. The “you’re going to die!!!” hysteria ends up being counterproductive. Even as deadly as COVID is, the truth is that unvaccinated people probably won’t die from their case…the vast majority survive. But if people understood how many recoveries included long-term health consequences that significantly affected their quality of life, they might be better able to weigh that against the potential side effects of a vaccine.

ay 5y ago
It is strange to me how many think that “you are going to die” is a harsher threat than “you will live a long life that will be severely crippled”. If I die, I cease to exist. So, while from the standpoint of the pre-death me, it is very unfortunate, the post-death me is either a null or an ephemeral entity in a different dimension (depending on which of the belief systems works) Remaining in the same spatial domain but set back into oblivion by my own choices is about as close to the definition of hell as it can get.
- AussieWog93 5y ago
  Do you have kids? The thought of my daughter growing up without her daddy around scares me more than the thought of chronic pain or weakness.
  - walterbell 5y ago
    Why did Pfizer data for their COVID-19 vaccine not report the injury and paralysis of a 12-year-old participant in the clinical trial? From a June 2021 article by Robert Kennedy's CHD non-profit org, https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/sen-johnson-ken-ruettgers-press-conference-families-injured-covid-vaccines/ https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/sen-johnson-ken-... > Senator Ron Johnson (R-WI) held a news conference Monday to discuss adverse reactions related to the COVID vaccines — giving individuals who have been “repeatedly ignored” by the medical community a platform to share their stories ... Among them was Maddie de Garay from Ohio who volunteered for the Pfizer vaccine trial when she was 12. On Jan. 20, Maddie received her second dose of the Pfizer COVID vaccine as a participant in the clinical trial for 12- to 15-year-olds and is now in a wheelchair ... “Why is she not back to normal? She was totally fine before this,” said Stephanie de Garay, Maddie’s mother. She volunteered for the Pfizer vaccine trial “to help everyone else and they’re not helping here. Before Maddie got her final dose of the vaccine she was healthy, got straight As, had lots of friends and had a life.” > ... Upon receiving the second shot, Maddie immediately felt pain at the injection site and over the next 24-hours developed severe abdominal and chest pain, de Garay said at the press event. Maddie told her mother it felt like her heart was being ripped out through her neck, and she had painful electrical shocks down her neck and spine that forced her to walk hunched over ... She developed gastroparesis, nausea and vomiting, erratic blood pressure, memory loss, brain fog, headaches, dizziness, fainting, seizures, verbal and motor tics, menstrual cycle issues, lost feeling from the waist down, lost bowel and bladder control and had an nasogastric tube placed because she lost her ability to eat. > ... Johnson argued that while most people don’t suffer significant side effects following vaccination, he is concerned about “that small minority that are suffering severe symptoms.” 80-min video of June 2021 news conference: https://rumble.com/vj5xbf-senator-ron-johnson-milwaukee-news-conference.html https://rumble.com/vj5xbf-senator-ron-johnson-milwaukee-news... The more we know about the statistical minority who suffer severe adverse reactions, the better we can screen vaccine recipients to avoid unusual but life-altering injuries.
    - shadowgovt 5y ago
      Great question. The unfortunate thing about the reporting from Kennedy's org is they raise questions like this without chasing them. They are only half curious and the result is a half story.
- Jenda_ 5y ago
  This is not the case of long COVID, though, as 1) the symptoms seem definitely bad, but IMHO not as a life not worth living 2) they usually don't remove the physical ability to commit suicide, so one can "fall back" to the "you are going to die" option (which I would of course, as per point 1, not recommend)
  - grepfru_it 5y ago
    I had long haul for 9 months. I do not recommend it to anyone. It gave me PTSD
KMag 5y ago
> I’ve seen this kind of phenomenon first hand when it comes to drugs. In 7th or 8th grade, I remember watching a video in health class that included a (presumably fictional) dramatization where a kid died his first time trying marijuana because (unbeknownst to him) it had been laced with crack cocaine. It was difficult to take much of health class seriously after seeing that video. If your audience doesn't have much background in your subject matter, they're still able to spot lazy arguments. They know they're unable to judge the merits of the rest, but the lazy arguments spoil the whole message. Many times, lazy arguments are less damaging when the audience has the necessary background to evaluate everything being said.
- noduerme 5y ago
  I saw a similar video in junior high and thought it was ridiculous. Then in high school I knew a girl who was raped by several guys at a party who gave her weed laced with something that made her pass out. I don't know if I would have considered it a lazy argument if that girl had told her story when I was 13. There was just something hamfisted and out of touch about those DARE videos.
  - Jenda_ 5y ago
    I guess this is not really connected with the weed, they could have put the drugs into her glass of soda otherwise?
    - angelzen 5y ago
      They could, but "I'm feeling kind of funny, it must be the weed" is easier to slide by compared to "I'm feeling kind of funny, I need to call Dad ASAP".
    - noduerme 5y ago
      I guess they could have. At the time in the 90s, rohypnol wasn't so common. And now, girls are much more careful about watching their drinks than watching their weed. The fact that she was out at a party with older boys and smoking weed definitely made it impossible to tell her parents. But I guess the point of all of this is that these stupid educational videos about drugs would be more effective if they talked about real things that happen instead of trying to create false fears. The reality of being a teen surrounded by drugs and sex abuse is scary enough.
aantix 5y ago
There's definitely an organized push to disseminate anecdotal stories of "see, he didn't get the vaccine, and on his death bed, his last wish was for everyone to get vaccinated." Maybe these stories are put out by the AP? I'm in Lincoln, NE. Omaha is an hour a way. And these exact stories will run in both local papers the exact same day. Feels... slimy.
- ryguytilidie 5y ago
  I cannot think of a more sinister motivation than not wanting your fellow Americans to die.
- Tostino 5y ago
  I mean it is a legitimate reaction people are having, it's not surprising the standard outlets pick up on these type of stories because they do push for the outcome of getting people to vaccinate.
  - aantix 5y ago
    I think these mass distributed stories work against the movement. I’m looking at these stories, wondering why they’re running a story about a guy in NC when local Nebraskans are dying. Why aren’t they covering the local story? Why is it cross posted across local news outlets. Just lazy journalism or a concerted message. Feels gross either way. And not pursuasive. At all.
    - amanaplanacanal 5y ago
      It’s much quicker and easier to run a story from AP than to hire your own journalists.
      - aantix 5y ago
        Could be innocent laziness. But since it’s a critical subject, the coordinated messaging feels like a propaganda piece. This is coming from someone who is vaccinated.
tehjoker 5y ago
They don't want to talk about long term effects of COVID because that would scare people away from reopening the economy. The vaccine protects against severe disease and death. Jury is still out on long COVID (for breakthrough cases, obviously the vaccine protects against long COVID when it protects you from getting a case at all and so people should definitely get vaccinated!!).
CryptoPunk 5y ago
>>The so called “long COVID” really needs to be part of the vaccine calculus because the health consequences are very much worse than the purported side effects from the vaccine. Here is a typical study purportedly showing evidence for long COVID: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/28/covid-37-of-people-have-symptoms-six-months-after-infection https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/28/covid-37-of-pe... Anxiety is the most common symptom of long COVID.. All of the symptoms listed could be psychosomatic, due to fear around COVID. Not to mention the prescribed two week isolation that is part of the standard of care for even an asymptomatic COVID infecion, which could have a profound negative impact on physical and mental health, given what is known about the health risks of isolation. Not enough attention is paid to the dangers of over-reacting to COVID: https://twitter.com/PandaTribune/status/1440192783260655618?s=20 https://twitter.com/PandaTribune/status/1440192783260655618?... >>Great clip of Bill Maher citing a survey in which 41% of Democrats said that if you catch COVID, the chances of going to the hospital are >50%... (the correct answer is between 1% - 5%) Maher says the "liberal media needs to take responsibility for scaring the sh*t out of people" With regard to vaccines, my personal opinion is that they will prove to pose an extroardinarily low risk of producing a severe adverse effect, orders of magnitude lower than that posed by COVID. People worry about vaccines not being tested for long term effects but covid is also not tested for long term effects. We can use common sense to deduce long term effects. What we do know already is that COVID is not a retrovirus, so it doesn't have a genetic impact on cells that outlives the infection. We also know that the infection lasts a few weeks, then is cleared from the body. Similarly, none of the vaccines change cell DNA, so will not have a genetic impact that outlives the vaccination's immediate post administration effects. Therefore we can deduce that the only long-term impact of the COVID vaccines, and COVID, is from the damage done during the few days of immune response to the vaccine antigens, and few weeks when the COVID infection is active, respectively, and thus that the severity of the immediate-vaccine-response/infection can be expected to be proportional to the risk of long-term complications (i.e. long-term effects of vaccines, or long-COVID). So any vaccine that poses an extremely low risk of producing a severe immediate adverse effect, or any demographic which faces an extremely low risk of facing serious symptoms and death from COVID, should also face an accordingly low risk of long-term complications. With vaccines, there is also the risk of 'antibody-dependent enhancement of virus infection', but so far, that hasn't manifested in any of the COVID vaccines.
CryptoPunk 5y ago
Physical symptoms of stress include: Low energy Headaches Upset stomach, including diarrhea, constipation, and nausea Aches, pains, and tense muscles Chest pain and rapid heartbeat Insomnia Frequent colds and infections Loss of sexual desire and/or ability Nervousness and shaking, ringing in the ear, cold or sweaty hands and feet Dry mouth and difficulty swallowing Clenched jaw and grinding teeth Sounds like all of the physical symptoms of so-called long-COVID.
- ric2b 5y ago
  Yeah, let's ignore all the breathing related symptoms which are usually the most talked about and pretend people are just stressed.
  - CryptoPunk 5y ago
    The most commonly reported breathing problem is "abnormal breathing", which can 100% be caused anxiety/stress/etc, especially when COVID hysteria is driving hypochondria. There is no compelling evidence that the correlation between these self-reported symptoms, and having a COVID infection months prior, is due damage caused by the COVID infection, and not due to any number of other confounding factors. There have been no rigorous studies, i.e. large, randomized and controlled studies, showing this. Notice how extreme rigor is demanded for the ivermectin studies but then really just mere correlation is enough to draw scare mongering conclusions about covid. Also, the theory simply doesn't make sense, given the vast majority of COVID cases are mild, with no evidence of the kind of acute lung damage that can lead to long-term complications affecting breathing. If lung damage from COVID was really that pervasive, we would know about it, both from the acute symptoms, and from imaging scans.
shaklee3 5y ago
It's not though. Recent studies show long covid drops off about 4 months and goes away completely after 6. Only a tiny fraction of a percent see anything beyond that.

ay 5y ago

It is strange to me how many think that “you are going to die” is a harsher threat than “you will live a long life that will be severely crippled”. If I die, I cease to exist. So, while from the standpoint of the pre-death me, it is very unfortunate, the post-death me is either a null or an ephemeral entity in a different dimension (depending on which of the belief systems works) Remaining in the same spatial domain but set back into oblivion by my own choices is about as close to the definition of hell as it can get.

AussieWog93 5y ago
Do you have kids? The thought of my daughter growing up without her daddy around scares me more than the thought of chronic pain or weakness.
- walterbell 5y ago
  Why did Pfizer data for their COVID-19 vaccine not report the injury and paralysis of a 12-year-old participant in the clinical trial? From a June 2021 article by Robert Kennedy's CHD non-profit org, https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/sen-johnson-ken-ruettgers-press-conference-families-injured-covid-vaccines/ https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/sen-johnson-ken-... > Senator Ron Johnson (R-WI) held a news conference Monday to discuss adverse reactions related to the COVID vaccines — giving individuals who have been “repeatedly ignored” by the medical community a platform to share their stories ... Among them was Maddie de Garay from Ohio who volunteered for the Pfizer vaccine trial when she was 12. On Jan. 20, Maddie received her second dose of the Pfizer COVID vaccine as a participant in the clinical trial for 12- to 15-year-olds and is now in a wheelchair ... “Why is she not back to normal? She was totally fine before this,” said Stephanie de Garay, Maddie’s mother. She volunteered for the Pfizer vaccine trial “to help everyone else and they’re not helping here. Before Maddie got her final dose of the vaccine she was healthy, got straight As, had lots of friends and had a life.” > ... Upon receiving the second shot, Maddie immediately felt pain at the injection site and over the next 24-hours developed severe abdominal and chest pain, de Garay said at the press event. Maddie told her mother it felt like her heart was being ripped out through her neck, and she had painful electrical shocks down her neck and spine that forced her to walk hunched over ... She developed gastroparesis, nausea and vomiting, erratic blood pressure, memory loss, brain fog, headaches, dizziness, fainting, seizures, verbal and motor tics, menstrual cycle issues, lost feeling from the waist down, lost bowel and bladder control and had an nasogastric tube placed because she lost her ability to eat. > ... Johnson argued that while most people don’t suffer significant side effects following vaccination, he is concerned about “that small minority that are suffering severe symptoms.” 80-min video of June 2021 news conference: https://rumble.com/vj5xbf-senator-ron-johnson-milwaukee-news-conference.html https://rumble.com/vj5xbf-senator-ron-johnson-milwaukee-news... The more we know about the statistical minority who suffer severe adverse reactions, the better we can screen vaccine recipients to avoid unusual but life-altering injuries.
  - shadowgovt 5y ago
    Great question. The unfortunate thing about the reporting from Kennedy's org is they raise questions like this without chasing them. They are only half curious and the result is a half story.
Jenda_ 5y ago
This is not the case of long COVID, though, as 1) the symptoms seem definitely bad, but IMHO not as a life not worth living 2) they usually don't remove the physical ability to commit suicide, so one can "fall back" to the "you are going to die" option (which I would of course, as per point 1, not recommend)
- grepfru_it 5y ago
  I had long haul for 9 months. I do not recommend it to anyone. It gave me PTSD

KMag 5y ago

> I’ve seen this kind of phenomenon first hand when it comes to drugs. In 7th or 8th grade, I remember watching a video in health class that included a (presumably fictional) dramatization where a kid died his first time trying marijuana because (unbeknownst to him) it had been laced with crack cocaine. It was difficult to take much of health class seriously after seeing that video. If your audience doesn't have much background in your subject matter, they're still able to spot lazy arguments. They know they're unable to judge the merits of the rest, but the lazy arguments spoil the whole message. Many times, lazy arguments are less damaging when the audience has the necessary background to evaluate everything being said.

noduerme 5y ago
I saw a similar video in junior high and thought it was ridiculous. Then in high school I knew a girl who was raped by several guys at a party who gave her weed laced with something that made her pass out. I don't know if I would have considered it a lazy argument if that girl had told her story when I was 13. There was just something hamfisted and out of touch about those DARE videos.
- Jenda_ 5y ago
  I guess this is not really connected with the weed, they could have put the drugs into her glass of soda otherwise?
  - angelzen 5y ago
    They could, but "I'm feeling kind of funny, it must be the weed" is easier to slide by compared to "I'm feeling kind of funny, I need to call Dad ASAP".
  - noduerme 5y ago
    I guess they could have. At the time in the 90s, rohypnol wasn't so common. And now, girls are much more careful about watching their drinks than watching their weed. The fact that she was out at a party with older boys and smoking weed definitely made it impossible to tell her parents. But I guess the point of all of this is that these stupid educational videos about drugs would be more effective if they talked about real things that happen instead of trying to create false fears. The reality of being a teen surrounded by drugs and sex abuse is scary enough.

aantix 5y ago

There's definitely an organized push to disseminate anecdotal stories of "see, he didn't get the vaccine, and on his death bed, his last wish was for everyone to get vaccinated." Maybe these stories are put out by the AP? I'm in Lincoln, NE. Omaha is an hour a way. And these exact stories will run in both local papers the exact same day. Feels... slimy.

ryguytilidie 5y ago
I cannot think of a more sinister motivation than not wanting your fellow Americans to die.
Tostino 5y ago
I mean it is a legitimate reaction people are having, it's not surprising the standard outlets pick up on these type of stories because they do push for the outcome of getting people to vaccinate.
- aantix 5y ago
  I think these mass distributed stories work against the movement. I’m looking at these stories, wondering why they’re running a story about a guy in NC when local Nebraskans are dying. Why aren’t they covering the local story? Why is it cross posted across local news outlets. Just lazy journalism or a concerted message. Feels gross either way. And not pursuasive. At all.
  - amanaplanacanal 5y ago
    It’s much quicker and easier to run a story from AP than to hire your own journalists.
    - aantix 5y ago
      Could be innocent laziness. But since it’s a critical subject, the coordinated messaging feels like a propaganda piece. This is coming from someone who is vaccinated.

tehjoker 5y ago

They don't want to talk about long term effects of COVID because that would scare people away from reopening the economy. The vaccine protects against severe disease and death. Jury is still out on long COVID (for breakthrough cases, obviously the vaccine protects against long COVID when it protects you from getting a case at all and so people should definitely get vaccinated!!).

CryptoPunk 5y ago

>>The so called “long COVID” really needs to be part of the vaccine calculus because the health consequences are very much worse than the purported side effects from the vaccine. Here is a typical study purportedly showing evidence for long COVID: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/28/covid-37-of-people-have-symptoms-six-months-after-infection https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/28/covid-37-of-pe... Anxiety is the most common symptom of long COVID.. All of the symptoms listed could be psychosomatic, due to fear around COVID. Not to mention the prescribed two week isolation that is part of the standard of care for even an asymptomatic COVID infecion, which could have a profound negative impact on physical and mental health, given what is known about the health risks of isolation. Not enough attention is paid to the dangers of over-reacting to COVID: https://twitter.com/PandaTribune/status/1440192783260655618?s=20 https://twitter.com/PandaTribune/status/1440192783260655618?... >>Great clip of Bill Maher citing a survey in which 41% of Democrats said that if you catch COVID, the chances of going to the hospital are >50%... (the correct answer is between 1% - 5%) Maher says the "liberal media needs to take responsibility for scaring the sh*t out of people" With regard to vaccines, my personal opinion is that they will prove to pose an extroardinarily low risk of producing a severe adverse effect, orders of magnitude lower than that posed by COVID. People worry about vaccines not being tested for long term effects but covid is also not tested for long term effects. We can use common sense to deduce long term effects. What we do know already is that COVID is not a retrovirus, so it doesn't have a genetic impact on cells that outlives the infection. We also know that the infection lasts a few weeks, then is cleared from the body. Similarly, none of the vaccines change cell DNA, so will not have a genetic impact that outlives the vaccination's immediate post administration effects. Therefore we can deduce that the only long-term impact of the COVID vaccines, and COVID, is from the damage done during the few days of immune response to the vaccine antigens, and few weeks when the COVID infection is active, respectively, and thus that the severity of the immediate-vaccine-response/infection can be expected to be proportional to the risk of long-term complications (i.e. long-term effects of vaccines, or long-COVID). So any vaccine that poses an extremely low risk of producing a severe immediate adverse effect, or any demographic which faces an extremely low risk of facing serious symptoms and death from COVID, should also face an accordingly low risk of long-term complications. With vaccines, there is also the risk of 'antibody-dependent enhancement of virus infection', but so far, that hasn't manifested in any of the COVID vaccines.

CryptoPunk 5y ago

Physical symptoms of stress include: Low energy Headaches Upset stomach, including diarrhea, constipation, and nausea Aches, pains, and tense muscles Chest pain and rapid heartbeat Insomnia Frequent colds and infections Loss of sexual desire and/or ability Nervousness and shaking, ringing in the ear, cold or sweaty hands and feet Dry mouth and difficulty swallowing Clenched jaw and grinding teeth Sounds like all of the physical symptoms of so-called long-COVID.

ric2b 5y ago
Yeah, let's ignore all the breathing related symptoms which are usually the most talked about and pretend people are just stressed.
- CryptoPunk 5y ago
  The most commonly reported breathing problem is "abnormal breathing", which can 100% be caused anxiety/stress/etc, especially when COVID hysteria is driving hypochondria. There is no compelling evidence that the correlation between these self-reported symptoms, and having a COVID infection months prior, is due damage caused by the COVID infection, and not due to any number of other confounding factors. There have been no rigorous studies, i.e. large, randomized and controlled studies, showing this. Notice how extreme rigor is demanded for the ivermectin studies but then really just mere correlation is enough to draw scare mongering conclusions about covid. Also, the theory simply doesn't make sense, given the vast majority of COVID cases are mild, with no evidence of the kind of acute lung damage that can lead to long-term complications affecting breathing. If lung damage from COVID was really that pervasive, we would know about it, both from the acute symptoms, and from imaging scans.

shaklee3 5y ago

It's not though. Recent studies show long covid drops off about 4 months and goes away completely after 6. Only a tiny fraction of a percent see anything beyond that.