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If there was a problem with the vaccine we probably would have noticed something by the time a billion people got injected with it. These skeptics need to put

If there was a problem with the vaccine we probably would have noticed something by the time a billion people got injected with it. These skeptics need to put up some serious evidence if they want to be taken seriously.

AlexandrB 5y ago
I agree. This kind of skepticism-on-theoretical-grounds might have been interesting/valuable a year ago. At this point additional evidence for the vaccine's safety mounts every day as more people receive it. Evidence for the vaccine's efficacy is also mounting[1]. Claims to the contrary would need some extraordinary evidence to back them up. [1] https://www.foxnews.com/health/covid-19-hospitalizations-nonvaccinated https://www.foxnews.com/health/covid-19-hospitalizations-non...
- AHappyCamper 5y ago
  Scientist #1 said that if she mentions anything against the vaccine, there would be retribution against her. This includes publishing any data that detracts from the vaccines safety. They're essentially creating an echo chamber where all news about the vaccine is good news.
  - AlexandrB 5y ago
    Given the number of countries and institutions involved the scope of the conspiracy here would have to be vast. And there are plenty of powerful, vaccine-skeptical institutions (like the GOP) that would welcome this kind of data and venerate someone producing it. Indeed, some have already built media or political careers on COVID vaccine skepticism. In addition, there's the J&J vaccine which was pulled after nasty side effects were found in a small number of patients. Where was the "they" who are supposedly creating the echo chamber in that case?
  - babypuncher 5y ago
    You're still making bold yet vague claims and providing no evidence. Just wishy-washy "an unnamed expert I know made this significant yet unverifiable statement".
AHappyCamper 5y ago
But we have noticed problems with it. https://openvaers.com/covid-data https://openvaers.com/covid-data
belorn 5y ago
One major issue was that in the beginning of this year we started with one dose, then went to a second dose a few months later, and then a third dose is starting to be recommended now a few months after that. There are some serious evidence to back this up. A study done around early summer found that only about 50% of those that have taken two doses had any detectable traces of a defense, which was one of the reason that a third dose had to be added. By winter we don't know how effective the 2 dose or 3 dose will be. To me that is where the focus of skepticism should be right now.
- babypuncher 5y ago
  > There are some serious evidence to back this up. A study done around early summer found that only about 50% of those that have taken two doses had any detectable traces of a defense, which was one of the reason that a third dose had to be added. By winter we don't know how effective the 2 dose or 3 dose will be. One study, going against countless others showing that the vaccines are highly effective. The readily available data speaks for itself. Highly vaccinated populations are experiencing much slower transmission and hospitalization rates than their poorly vaccinated counterparts. Also, we didn't start with one dose. Both mRNA vaccines were two-dose regimens from the day they started clinical trials last summer.
  - belorn 5y ago
    We don't have countless studies on how effective the vaccines over a longer period of time, and especially for those with two doses. Most seems to been done around 3 months, through most conclusions is based on simulations from observation data gathered by other vaccines such as smallpox, measles, mumps, and rubella. The observed half-life of neutralizing titers was 65 days for mRNA vaccines. The evidence will be found in the future when we have more data. Most expectation is that while the protection will be significant lower but that there might be some longer term benefits. Highly vaccinated populations that has taken the vaccine in the last 3-4 months are going to be currently more protected than those that aren't, but that doesn't say much if we need a new vaccination this winter, next summer or the year after that. It would be interesting to see a study done on those early groups of people that received the last dose of vaccine in 2020 during the summer and see how much protection that they still have now this fall in 2021. Got any links to such studies?
max46 5y ago
>If there was a problem with the vaccine we probably would have noticed something by the time a billion people got injected with it. Not when everyone who tries to talk about their bad experiences gets treated like qanon and the morons who thought 5G caused covid-19. Even quoting CDC or letters from a company who makes the vaccines is considered dangerous misinformation and can get you banned if what you are showing doesn't paint the vaccine in a good light.
- longhairedhippy 5y ago
  I would venture a guess that some of that is due to the people sticking spoons to their faces, saying they were magnetized by the vaccine. Do we really need to give those people a platform? While we are walking a fine line here, people have proven they will believe anything that is said in an authoritative enough voice, regardless of merit. At what point does the harm outweigh the good? We know social media allows these people to find each other and create echo chambers to reinforce their viewpoints and recruit others. We would have no problem if this was "white supremacy" or "terrorism", however I think this will affect many more people.

AlexandrB 5y ago

I agree. This kind of skepticism-on-theoretical-grounds might have been interesting/valuable a year ago. At this point additional evidence for the vaccine's safety mounts every day as more people receive it. Evidence for the vaccine's efficacy is also mounting[1]. Claims to the contrary would need some extraordinary evidence to back them up. [1] https://www.foxnews.com/health/covid-19-hospitalizations-nonvaccinated https://www.foxnews.com/health/covid-19-hospitalizations-non...

AHappyCamper 5y ago
Scientist #1 said that if she mentions anything against the vaccine, there would be retribution against her. This includes publishing any data that detracts from the vaccines safety. They're essentially creating an echo chamber where all news about the vaccine is good news.
- AlexandrB 5y ago
  Given the number of countries and institutions involved the scope of the conspiracy here would have to be vast. And there are plenty of powerful, vaccine-skeptical institutions (like the GOP) that would welcome this kind of data and venerate someone producing it. Indeed, some have already built media or political careers on COVID vaccine skepticism. In addition, there's the J&J vaccine which was pulled after nasty side effects were found in a small number of patients. Where was the "they" who are supposedly creating the echo chamber in that case?
- babypuncher 5y ago
  You're still making bold yet vague claims and providing no evidence. Just wishy-washy "an unnamed expert I know made this significant yet unverifiable statement".

AHappyCamper 5y ago

But we have noticed problems with it. https://openvaers.com/covid-data https://openvaers.com/covid-data

belorn 5y ago

One major issue was that in the beginning of this year we started with one dose, then went to a second dose a few months later, and then a third dose is starting to be recommended now a few months after that. There are some serious evidence to back this up. A study done around early summer found that only about 50% of those that have taken two doses had any detectable traces of a defense, which was one of the reason that a third dose had to be added. By winter we don't know how effective the 2 dose or 3 dose will be. To me that is where the focus of skepticism should be right now.

babypuncher 5y ago
> There are some serious evidence to back this up. A study done around early summer found that only about 50% of those that have taken two doses had any detectable traces of a defense, which was one of the reason that a third dose had to be added. By winter we don't know how effective the 2 dose or 3 dose will be. One study, going against countless others showing that the vaccines are highly effective. The readily available data speaks for itself. Highly vaccinated populations are experiencing much slower transmission and hospitalization rates than their poorly vaccinated counterparts. Also, we didn't start with one dose. Both mRNA vaccines were two-dose regimens from the day they started clinical trials last summer.
- belorn 5y ago
  We don't have countless studies on how effective the vaccines over a longer period of time, and especially for those with two doses. Most seems to been done around 3 months, through most conclusions is based on simulations from observation data gathered by other vaccines such as smallpox, measles, mumps, and rubella. The observed half-life of neutralizing titers was 65 days for mRNA vaccines. The evidence will be found in the future when we have more data. Most expectation is that while the protection will be significant lower but that there might be some longer term benefits. Highly vaccinated populations that has taken the vaccine in the last 3-4 months are going to be currently more protected than those that aren't, but that doesn't say much if we need a new vaccination this winter, next summer or the year after that. It would be interesting to see a study done on those early groups of people that received the last dose of vaccine in 2020 during the summer and see how much protection that they still have now this fall in 2021. Got any links to such studies?

max46 5y ago

>If there was a problem with the vaccine we probably would have noticed something by the time a billion people got injected with it. Not when everyone who tries to talk about their bad experiences gets treated like qanon and the morons who thought 5G caused covid-19. Even quoting CDC or letters from a company who makes the vaccines is considered dangerous misinformation and can get you banned if what you are showing doesn't paint the vaccine in a good light.

longhairedhippy 5y ago
I would venture a guess that some of that is due to the people sticking spoons to their faces, saying they were magnetized by the vaccine. Do we really need to give those people a platform? While we are walking a fine line here, people have proven they will believe anything that is said in an authoritative enough voice, regardless of merit. At what point does the harm outweigh the good? We know social media allows these people to find each other and create echo chambers to reinforce their viewpoints and recruit others. We would have no problem if this was "white supremacy" or "terrorism", however I think this will affect many more people.