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The Raspberry Pi is a device I always see many capabilities for that are better served by other hardware devices that people usually already own, or there is a

The Raspberry Pi is a device I always see many capabilities for that are better served by other hardware devices that people usually already own, or there is a cheaper device that can do what it does, as well as many that does it much better for the same price. I don't get the useage of the Pi anymore since its no longer fanless, it is trying to be a desktop replacement with outdated hardware, and doesn't have anything specialized for it that is exceptional, in fact it is a jack of all trades, master at none while many more have better raw specs and have much stronger performance. I don't know the audience for the Pi4 anymore, except maybe people who had a Pi3 and just wanted to port their config easily and switch the hardware they had into it. In regards to the suggestions for the better hardware, would you use an old laptop or desktop with a network card for the same purpose? It could act as a server as well, no need to get this hardware if you are going to just use it on a server you need anyway, unless you are using the hardware as a server. Edit: I am posting too fast, but to the person under me, there are much stronger SBCs that are the same size, and with the fan requirements on the Pi4, it isn't as small as it was, nor is is power efficient as other SBCs that would be much better. If using a server at home, having a router with custom FW would save much more space (the pi hole project could be easily served with a hosts blocker and custom firmware), having a blade server with virtualiziation would save even more space in terms of computation if you are comfortable with virtualized compututing, an old laptop isn't going to make a significant size difference, but if it does the Pi 4 still isn't the best hardware for the job.

nickstinemates 5y ago
space efficiency is still huge. You can get a lot of compute in a very small, portal formfactor. That shouldn't be trivialized.
- GhettoComputers 5y ago
  What scenario is that a huge factor? Most people have old x86 hardware laying around that isn't being used. If it is a huge factor, wouldn't you at that point just get a good router for less and have more space, or run virtualized computers on a server?
  - nickstinemates 5y ago
    I wasn't talking about the particular use case in the OP, only rebutting the point that Pi's aren't useful where something more specialized would be.
    - GhettoComputers 5y ago
      Can you name a scenario you think of for this purpose? I only see trying out hardware you may want, or just having it be good enough to stay as a temp semi-permanent solution to an issue you have.
      - nickstinemates 5y ago
        As an example, I have a Dell R620 sitting behind me (among lots of other stuff,) it has 20 cores and 128GB of RAM. It's loud. It's hot. It's powerful and awesome. I bought it for $400 refurbished. It's sitting in a nice rack. I use it for VMs. I have a stack of 10 RPI4's in a case on my left, a lot smaller. Deadly quiet. That's 40 cores and 80GB of RAM. Not loud at all. Bought them for $75 each. I use them as physical hosts for a number of things. I treat them the same. General compute. One cluster is more convenient than the other.
StillBored 5y ago
The reason everyone uses rpi's is because everyone uses rpi's. At this point there aren't any SBC's that are truly faster (some do have better connectivity/re SATA/PCIe/etc but 4 A72's and 8G of RAM which given a reasonable heatsink run at 2Ghz are faster than nearly every single other SBC less than $100). But overwhelmingly those boards are trash. The rpi is trash too, but its trash that everyone and their brother uses so it tends to work. Unless your good at reverse engineering GPU's or random SoC bugs, you stick to the rpi because someone else has already done the heavy lifting. That, and at least in the USA, its really the only SBC most people can buy locally because best buy, microcenter, and various other stores actually stock them.
- GhettoComputers 5y ago
  >At this point there aren't any SBC's that are truly faster Which Pi 4 model are you comparing it to? What defines "trash"? You can easily use an older laptop since everyone actually uses x86 and likely has spare hardware. >you stick to the rpi because someone else has already done the heavy lifting. I wouldn't buy hardware with no support, and x86 has the most support. Why does local stores matter for SBCs? People don't really buy hardware at stores since newegg, arrow/digikey/mouser and amazon exist. Online retail killed radioshack, and is currently decimating local buying. Cyber monday deals aren't excluding anyone when most people have amazon prime.
  - StillBored 5y ago
    Well depends on what you mean by "support", but I tend to agree most people would be better served spending a bit more (or repurposing older hw) and getting a recent atom/low end x86. They are surprisingly power efficient these days, and idle as low or lower than the rpi4's, and finding one with multiple NIC's shouldn't be to hard. And most are probably much faster than the A72's on the pi. But you wouldn't see people posting about their successes doing this with a atomicPi, chuwi herobox, or the dozens of other inexpensive x86 machines that might be considered competitors because its assumed one can install $RANDOM_OS and configure vlan+routing with them. OTOH, while the rpi's support is weak they guarantee supplies for a fairly long time. Which actually makes them a reasonable choice for this kind of thing if you plan on designing it once, sticking it on box somewhere and expect to be able to buy another in 5-8 years when it dies. Chuwi like random android vendors churns their product lines every couple months with upgrades.
louwrentius 5y ago
Frankly, one of these days I'm going to write an article about your point. On the one hand, the Pi 4 Model B is absolutely amazing and the support is outstanding. On the other hand, for each role it can fulfil, there are probably much better options. As in: better price, performance, capabilities, and so on. But in some sense, the Pi isn't about actual practical usability. Jeff Geerling has shown with his youtube channel how much fun can be had with them.
- GhettoComputers 5y ago
  I think of the Pi as mostly a dust collector for many people who will find a use for it doing some mundane task like pihole or as a desktop replacement for monitor they don't use and setting it up but never using it. A practical use can be you temporarily use it for capablilities: it is never stable, still can collect dust most of the time, but it will be used for a specialized task you don't have the hardware for temporarily like flashing chips, or running some linux distro you want to try. I don't think that is a bad usage of it since it uses its strengths which is its flexibility, while it can be purposefully used semi-permanent temporarily unless you have a reason to upgrade. Without a purpose before an impulse purchase, its usually stuck in the limbo of the paradox of choice.
  - louwrentius 5y ago
    Fair enough. I've bought too many of them, the amount of dust on some is 'substantial'.
    - GhettoComputers 5y ago
      Don't feel bad, I was also lured by their slick marketing. Wow it can play Quake 3 with its "swanky graphics" and is like a pentium 2 and can do 1080p playback on the first gen one!

nickstinemates 5y ago

space efficiency is still huge. You can get a lot of compute in a very small, portal formfactor. That shouldn't be trivialized.

GhettoComputers 5y ago
What scenario is that a huge factor? Most people have old x86 hardware laying around that isn't being used. If it is a huge factor, wouldn't you at that point just get a good router for less and have more space, or run virtualized computers on a server?
- nickstinemates 5y ago
  I wasn't talking about the particular use case in the OP, only rebutting the point that Pi's aren't useful where something more specialized would be.
  - GhettoComputers 5y ago
    Can you name a scenario you think of for this purpose? I only see trying out hardware you may want, or just having it be good enough to stay as a temp semi-permanent solution to an issue you have.
    - nickstinemates 5y ago
      As an example, I have a Dell R620 sitting behind me (among lots of other stuff,) it has 20 cores and 128GB of RAM. It's loud. It's hot. It's powerful and awesome. I bought it for $400 refurbished. It's sitting in a nice rack. I use it for VMs. I have a stack of 10 RPI4's in a case on my left, a lot smaller. Deadly quiet. That's 40 cores and 80GB of RAM. Not loud at all. Bought them for $75 each. I use them as physical hosts for a number of things. I treat them the same. General compute. One cluster is more convenient than the other.

StillBored 5y ago

The reason everyone uses rpi's is because everyone uses rpi's. At this point there aren't any SBC's that are truly faster (some do have better connectivity/re SATA/PCIe/etc but 4 A72's and 8G of RAM which given a reasonable heatsink run at 2Ghz are faster than nearly every single other SBC less than $100). But overwhelmingly those boards are trash. The rpi is trash too, but its trash that everyone and their brother uses so it tends to work. Unless your good at reverse engineering GPU's or random SoC bugs, you stick to the rpi because someone else has already done the heavy lifting. That, and at least in the USA, its really the only SBC most people can buy locally because best buy, microcenter, and various other stores actually stock them.

GhettoComputers 5y ago
>At this point there aren't any SBC's that are truly faster Which Pi 4 model are you comparing it to? What defines "trash"? You can easily use an older laptop since everyone actually uses x86 and likely has spare hardware. >you stick to the rpi because someone else has already done the heavy lifting. I wouldn't buy hardware with no support, and x86 has the most support. Why does local stores matter for SBCs? People don't really buy hardware at stores since newegg, arrow/digikey/mouser and amazon exist. Online retail killed radioshack, and is currently decimating local buying. Cyber monday deals aren't excluding anyone when most people have amazon prime.
- StillBored 5y ago
  Well depends on what you mean by "support", but I tend to agree most people would be better served spending a bit more (or repurposing older hw) and getting a recent atom/low end x86. They are surprisingly power efficient these days, and idle as low or lower than the rpi4's, and finding one with multiple NIC's shouldn't be to hard. And most are probably much faster than the A72's on the pi. But you wouldn't see people posting about their successes doing this with a atomicPi, chuwi herobox, or the dozens of other inexpensive x86 machines that might be considered competitors because its assumed one can install $RANDOM_OS and configure vlan+routing with them. OTOH, while the rpi's support is weak they guarantee supplies for a fairly long time. Which actually makes them a reasonable choice for this kind of thing if you plan on designing it once, sticking it on box somewhere and expect to be able to buy another in 5-8 years when it dies. Chuwi like random android vendors churns their product lines every couple months with upgrades.

louwrentius 5y ago

Frankly, one of these days I'm going to write an article about your point. On the one hand, the Pi 4 Model B is absolutely amazing and the support is outstanding. On the other hand, for each role it can fulfil, there are probably much better options. As in: better price, performance, capabilities, and so on. But in some sense, the Pi isn't about actual practical usability. Jeff Geerling has shown with his youtube channel how much fun can be had with them.

GhettoComputers 5y ago
I think of the Pi as mostly a dust collector for many people who will find a use for it doing some mundane task like pihole or as a desktop replacement for monitor they don't use and setting it up but never using it. A practical use can be you temporarily use it for capablilities: it is never stable, still can collect dust most of the time, but it will be used for a specialized task you don't have the hardware for temporarily like flashing chips, or running some linux distro you want to try. I don't think that is a bad usage of it since it uses its strengths which is its flexibility, while it can be purposefully used semi-permanent temporarily unless you have a reason to upgrade. Without a purpose before an impulse purchase, its usually stuck in the limbo of the paradox of choice.
- louwrentius 5y ago
  Fair enough. I've bought too many of them, the amount of dust on some is 'substantial'.
  - GhettoComputers 5y ago
    Don't feel bad, I was also lured by their slick marketing. Wow it can play Quake 3 with its "swanky graphics" and is like a pentium 2 and can do 1080p playback on the first gen one!