5 ms·

side effects of a two dose vaccine are almost certainly going to show up in the near term of less than 6 weeks. it's not something like a drug you take daily fo

side effects of a two dose vaccine are almost certainly going to show up in the near term of less than 6 weeks. it's not something like a drug you take daily for years and years and get a side effect from years down the line due to prolonged use. These are, by nature, very ephemeral due to them being mRNA and either being transformed into an instruction to make a small protein that then gets the body trained to neutralize or it gets neutralized on their own because they are not long lasting in the first place. There is no instruction inside the mRNA to make anything like the long lasting effects of a retrovirus. it's simply not there to do that. vaccines like this are more like the effects of taking a Tylenol or aspirin once... yeah you can get side effects from it but there is no long lasting effect because it's gone from your system.

hajile 5y ago
This is a very disingenuous argument. The alpha gal carbohydrate introduced by a lone Star tick trains your immune system to reject it in the future resulting in the inability to eat red meats. The alpha gal leaves your system very quickly, but the result of the (mis)-training of your immune system lasts forever. Researchers are very clear that mRNA therapy may be useful for permanent treatment of a wide variety of conditions in the future. The material may not persist, but the effects certainly will. The Israeli study indicates that natural immunity use up to 27x more effective than the vaccine against Delta. This indicates that something about the synthetic solution is inferior. What other differences exist? Will any other immune abnormalities appear over time? That wouldn't be unusual. Were other systems altered due to unknown interactions? We still discover very important natural interactions every year, so this isn't far fetched. What about your body only making limited, synthetic antigen antibodies instead of the better, more flexible natural ones in response to even more out of band gamma or mu strains? These are entirely unknown problems we're in the process of researching and for better or worse, we're the guinea pigs. I don't see why those perspective is hard to understand. People with low openness personalities who tend to be risk adverse are going to respond very differently from those with high openness and lower risk aversion (not to mention differing knowledge). It should be telling that doctors and nurses who have been watching covid patients die still often come to the conclusion that the vaccine isn't for them and is too risky. I've been reading about coronavirus vaccine attempts since SARS. I've watched one attempt after another fail -- often in spectacular ways. The idea that a long string of failures suddenly meets with absolute success just at the correct moment defies belief. Those of us who took the vaccine should at least admit to ourselves that there's a non-zero chance things are wrong this time too (though hopefully not so spectacularly) but that those effects and effect rates are still lower on aggregate than the problems from covid.
- allturtles 5y ago
  > The alpha gal leaves your system very quickly, but the result of the (mis)-training of your immune system lasts forever. But does it take years for the effect to show up after the alpha gal leaves your system? We are now 9 months into mass vaccination, and still no sign of these ominous long-term side effects that people seem so worried about.
  - twofornone 5y ago
    >But does it take years for the effect to show up after the alpha gal leaves your system? For this specific change, no. But the point is that there is ample chance for mRNA to induce semipermanent and/or permanent changes and there's no guarantee that they'll be detected early, especially when the vast majority of clinicians aren't even looking for them. If these vaccines do indeed, say, increase long term risk of cancer or heart problems, it will likely take years or even decades to detect especially when there is a rigid, top down enforced taboo around questioning the safety/efficacy of the vaccine. Yet another reason that censorship like this is dangerous. Researchers also get some of their ideas through free exchange on social media. Especially when the academic establishment develops a rigid orthodoxy around a topic; when all of the institutions align behind a single preemptive conclusion and then collude to suppress even rational, science based dissent across all platforms, your society stumbles down the false path of one sided research.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - Jenda_ 5y ago
      Sure, all of this is possible. Really improbable, but possible. But what are these chances compared to a real infection with coronavirus, which has more proteins than the spike protein and causes more havoc in the body?
  - weaksauce 5y ago
    they aren't even sure that the tick is the cause of that syndrome. they suspect it but there hasn't been a definitive link yet. also, people are allergic to all sorts of things like almonds or bees and can get new allergies later on in life.
bit_razor 5y ago
Regardless of why this was downvoted, it deserves an upvote for being correct. "Are there long-term side effects caused by mRNA COVID-19 vaccines? How do we know?" Basically, no because we've studied them. mRNA vaccines are notoriously easily destroyed. https://immunizebc.ca/ask-us/questions/are-there-long-term-side-effects-caused-mrna-covid-19-vaccines-how-do-we-know#:~:text=Decades%20of%20studying%20mRNA%20have,long%2Dterm%20side%2Deffects https://immunizebc.ca/ask-us/questions/are-there-long-term-s.... Is there some common knowledge that counters this that I'm missing?
- pigeonhole123 5y ago
  Check out Pfizer’s own RCT study where all cause mortality was unaffected by the vaccine at six months.
  - weaksauce 5y ago
    bold claims require evidence and not a one off comment like yours. if you want people to believe that you have to show your work.
    - SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
      Technically not a "one off comment" - their comment history ( https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=pigeonhole123 https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=pigeonhole123 ) trots out this "fact" over and over. Despite being rubbished repeatedly. And it's utter BS in the real world - did they even stop to think that some countries have given out millions of doses of Pfizer over the last 8 months, and if "all cause mortality was unaffected" compared to the pandemic situation in 2020, it would be obvious as hell. It's therefor a very extra-ordinary claim, no proof whatsoever. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28699864 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28699864 Why are they pushing this disinformation?
      - weaksauce 5y ago
        Yeah it's complete bullshit... vaccines are working and working well. the only people dying and taking up the ICU beds right now in any large numbers are the unvaccinated. > Why are they pushing this disinformation? either one of the following groups: russian/china disinformation bots or paid shills. people that like to be "in on the know" and take contrary viewpoints that are not mainstream. people that have fully bought into the above misinformation schemes. people that have taken to it like a political fight where reason goes out the window unless you are "winning". I ultimately think that a lot of people "broke" during the pandemic looking for some "enemy" to fight since the reality of a wild virus that just happened was too scary a thought. many people need the world to make sense and want control. some control of that is making up enemies like china releasing the virus intentionally and all the world governments working together in tandem to somehow control everyone.

hajile 5y ago

This is a very disingenuous argument. The alpha gal carbohydrate introduced by a lone Star tick trains your immune system to reject it in the future resulting in the inability to eat red meats. The alpha gal leaves your system very quickly, but the result of the (mis)-training of your immune system lasts forever. Researchers are very clear that mRNA therapy may be useful for permanent treatment of a wide variety of conditions in the future. The material may not persist, but the effects certainly will. The Israeli study indicates that natural immunity use up to 27x more effective than the vaccine against Delta. This indicates that something about the synthetic solution is inferior. What other differences exist? Will any other immune abnormalities appear over time? That wouldn't be unusual. Were other systems altered due to unknown interactions? We still discover very important natural interactions every year, so this isn't far fetched. What about your body only making limited, synthetic antigen antibodies instead of the better, more flexible natural ones in response to even more out of band gamma or mu strains? These are entirely unknown problems we're in the process of researching and for better or worse, we're the guinea pigs. I don't see why those perspective is hard to understand. People with low openness personalities who tend to be risk adverse are going to respond very differently from those with high openness and lower risk aversion (not to mention differing knowledge). It should be telling that doctors and nurses who have been watching covid patients die still often come to the conclusion that the vaccine isn't for them and is too risky. I've been reading about coronavirus vaccine attempts since SARS. I've watched one attempt after another fail -- often in spectacular ways. The idea that a long string of failures suddenly meets with absolute success just at the correct moment defies belief. Those of us who took the vaccine should at least admit to ourselves that there's a non-zero chance things are wrong this time too (though hopefully not so spectacularly) but that those effects and effect rates are still lower on aggregate than the problems from covid.

allturtles 5y ago
> The alpha gal leaves your system very quickly, but the result of the (mis)-training of your immune system lasts forever. But does it take years for the effect to show up after the alpha gal leaves your system? We are now 9 months into mass vaccination, and still no sign of these ominous long-term side effects that people seem so worried about.
- twofornone 5y ago
  >But does it take years for the effect to show up after the alpha gal leaves your system? For this specific change, no. But the point is that there is ample chance for mRNA to induce semipermanent and/or permanent changes and there's no guarantee that they'll be detected early, especially when the vast majority of clinicians aren't even looking for them. If these vaccines do indeed, say, increase long term risk of cancer or heart problems, it will likely take years or even decades to detect especially when there is a rigid, top down enforced taboo around questioning the safety/efficacy of the vaccine. Yet another reason that censorship like this is dangerous. Researchers also get some of their ideas through free exchange on social media. Especially when the academic establishment develops a rigid orthodoxy around a topic; when all of the institutions align behind a single preemptive conclusion and then collude to suppress even rational, science based dissent across all platforms, your society stumbles down the false path of one sided research.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - Jenda_ 5y ago
    Sure, all of this is possible. Really improbable, but possible. But what are these chances compared to a real infection with coronavirus, which has more proteins than the spike protein and causes more havoc in the body?
- weaksauce 5y ago
  they aren't even sure that the tick is the cause of that syndrome. they suspect it but there hasn't been a definitive link yet. also, people are allergic to all sorts of things like almonds or bees and can get new allergies later on in life.

bit_razor 5y ago

Regardless of why this was downvoted, it deserves an upvote for being correct. "Are there long-term side effects caused by mRNA COVID-19 vaccines? How do we know?" Basically, no because we've studied them. mRNA vaccines are notoriously easily destroyed. https://immunizebc.ca/ask-us/questions/are-there-long-term-side-effects-caused-mrna-covid-19-vaccines-how-do-we-know#:~:text=Decades%20of%20studying%20mRNA%20have,long%2Dterm%20side%2Deffects https://immunizebc.ca/ask-us/questions/are-there-long-term-s.... Is there some common knowledge that counters this that I'm missing?

pigeonhole123 5y ago
Check out Pfizer’s own RCT study where all cause mortality was unaffected by the vaccine at six months.
- weaksauce 5y ago
  bold claims require evidence and not a one off comment like yours. if you want people to believe that you have to show your work.
  - SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
    Technically not a "one off comment" - their comment history ( https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=pigeonhole123 https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=pigeonhole123 ) trots out this "fact" over and over. Despite being rubbished repeatedly. And it's utter BS in the real world - did they even stop to think that some countries have given out millions of doses of Pfizer over the last 8 months, and if "all cause mortality was unaffected" compared to the pandemic situation in 2020, it would be obvious as hell. It's therefor a very extra-ordinary claim, no proof whatsoever. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28699864 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28699864 Why are they pushing this disinformation?
    - weaksauce 5y ago
      Yeah it's complete bullshit... vaccines are working and working well. the only people dying and taking up the ICU beds right now in any large numbers are the unvaccinated. > Why are they pushing this disinformation? either one of the following groups: russian/china disinformation bots or paid shills. people that like to be "in on the know" and take contrary viewpoints that are not mainstream. people that have fully bought into the above misinformation schemes. people that have taken to it like a political fight where reason goes out the window unless you are "winning". I ultimately think that a lot of people "broke" during the pandemic looking for some "enemy" to fight since the reality of a wild virus that just happened was too scary a thought. many people need the world to make sense and want control. some control of that is making up enemies like china releasing the virus intentionally and all the world governments working together in tandem to somehow control everyone.