5 ms·

> words cause pain more often than not it's the pain of hearing a different opinion. The "hate speech" label turned into "speech I hate" long time ago.

silicon2401 5y ago
This is a great way to capture my view on the topic. How do we draw the line between hate speech that should be controlled, vs somebody's personal problem? If we call a rich white guy a cracker and he has a breakdown, I don't expect many anti-hate-speech people would mobilize a twitter army to defend him. That to me looks like an issue with "speech I hate" vs "hate speech", as you said.
- vvvac 5y ago
  You jump to a white guy labelled as a cracker as an example of hate speech? That's hilarious, projecting projecting projecting, never thinking outside of your own shoes. A better example: a mother lost their kid to a torturer and rapist and you go on TV to say the little kid (2yr old) deserved it for being black and stupid... You have no imagination, you may have money but you're still dumb, sorry.
  - silicon2401 5y ago
    I'm not even white lol. You're clearly more interested in shutting down an opposing viewpoint than having an actual discussion, so I won't be engaging you further, cheers.
    - vvvac 5y ago
      It really doesn't matter if you're white or purple, the argument stands, you can be extremely damaging, accusing someone of rape for example is speech and it's illegal, people can end up in jail for speech etc.
edmundsauto 5y ago
How would you attempt objectively measure something like this? The experiences we, as individuals have, is such a small slice of reality. In order to make broad statements, it's crucial to have a lot of perspective - do you feel your experience is sufficiently representative to make such statements?
- cybernautique 5y ago
  Honest question: why do I need more perspective than mine to make statements about my experience of the universe? Regardless of how broad or limited a statement I wish to make, the experience I have as an individual is the sum total of my reality. Unless I already value mitigating the pitfalls of undue generalization, why shouldn't I measure the universe by the yard stick of myself? I'm not defending the original statement. I happen to agree with you, but for different reasons. If it isn't already crucial to me that I have a lot of perspective, then why is it crucial?
  - edmundsauto 5y ago
    The old story where 8 blind people, who have never heard of an elephant, are asked to touch it and describe what they feel. One describes the trunk, and thinks it's like a snake. Another touches the side, and thinks it's a hippo. And so forth. Our own experiences are so limited, and our brains really like to generalize from very limited data. We are also blind to what we don't see. Perspective is one way to deal with these limitations.
    - cybernautique 5y ago
      I disagree that this is a representative parable. Putting eight blind men in a room to touch an elephant is a very controlled, very well-defined, problem; the insinuation is that if the blind people could merely collect the correct data, they'd arrive at the correct solution. Very few things in life exhibit these niceties, and the parable absolutely fails to generalize. What about for the actual day-to-day of our lives? If I do not already value perspective, then why should I?
vvvac 5y ago
No it didn't, hate speech is not speech someone dislikes dummy, it's actual hate speech. You're not free to hate on people based on things they cannot change. Their religion yes, because they can change it, but not genetic characteristics. And that's just one example of hate speech.

silicon2401 5y ago

This is a great way to capture my view on the topic. How do we draw the line between hate speech that should be controlled, vs somebody's personal problem? If we call a rich white guy a cracker and he has a breakdown, I don't expect many anti-hate-speech people would mobilize a twitter army to defend him. That to me looks like an issue with "speech I hate" vs "hate speech", as you said.

vvvac 5y ago
You jump to a white guy labelled as a cracker as an example of hate speech? That's hilarious, projecting projecting projecting, never thinking outside of your own shoes. A better example: a mother lost their kid to a torturer and rapist and you go on TV to say the little kid (2yr old) deserved it for being black and stupid... You have no imagination, you may have money but you're still dumb, sorry.
- silicon2401 5y ago
  I'm not even white lol. You're clearly more interested in shutting down an opposing viewpoint than having an actual discussion, so I won't be engaging you further, cheers.
  - vvvac 5y ago
    It really doesn't matter if you're white or purple, the argument stands, you can be extremely damaging, accusing someone of rape for example is speech and it's illegal, people can end up in jail for speech etc.

edmundsauto 5y ago

How would you attempt objectively measure something like this? The experiences we, as individuals have, is such a small slice of reality. In order to make broad statements, it's crucial to have a lot of perspective - do you feel your experience is sufficiently representative to make such statements?

cybernautique 5y ago
Honest question: why do I need more perspective than mine to make statements about my experience of the universe? Regardless of how broad or limited a statement I wish to make, the experience I have as an individual is the sum total of my reality. Unless I already value mitigating the pitfalls of undue generalization, why shouldn't I measure the universe by the yard stick of myself? I'm not defending the original statement. I happen to agree with you, but for different reasons. If it isn't already crucial to me that I have a lot of perspective, then why is it crucial?
- edmundsauto 5y ago
  The old story where 8 blind people, who have never heard of an elephant, are asked to touch it and describe what they feel. One describes the trunk, and thinks it's like a snake. Another touches the side, and thinks it's a hippo. And so forth. Our own experiences are so limited, and our brains really like to generalize from very limited data. We are also blind to what we don't see. Perspective is one way to deal with these limitations.
  - cybernautique 5y ago
    I disagree that this is a representative parable. Putting eight blind men in a room to touch an elephant is a very controlled, very well-defined, problem; the insinuation is that if the blind people could merely collect the correct data, they'd arrive at the correct solution. Very few things in life exhibit these niceties, and the parable absolutely fails to generalize. What about for the actual day-to-day of our lives? If I do not already value perspective, then why should I?

vvvac 5y ago

No it didn't, hate speech is not speech someone dislikes dummy, it's actual hate speech. You're not free to hate on people based on things they cannot change. Their religion yes, because they can change it, but not genetic characteristics. And that's just one example of hate speech.