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Critical thinking is at an all-time low in Western society. Enough people aren't being trained to think critically nowadays, and increasingly, societal pressur

Critical thinking is at an all-time low in Western society. Enough people aren't being trained to think critically nowadays, and increasingly, societal pressure, which used to put pressure on officials to vet and verify facts and positions, is diminishing. Until that changes, we will fall further and further into the cult of celebrity/personality, which is fundamentally appeal to authority. A person reading this MIT article should ask "Why should I believe what this article says?" If the answer is "because it's MIT! Duh!", then that's the problem in a nutshell. MIT is not a substitute for their own critical thinking faculties, nor is an MIT professor/academic/spokesperson/author the absolute arbiter of truth.

dragonwriter 5y ago
> Critical thinking is at an all-time low in Western society. I think you are viewing the past through rose-colored glasses.
- glitchc 5y ago
  Fair enough. Perhaps it's better to say that we seem to be in a local minimum right now.
m0zg 5y ago
I'd actually say critical thinking has seen considerable improvement in the past few years. For one thing people no longer unconditionally trust the press and government institutions like they used to in, say '00s, and instead see them for what they are - a little more than Pravda and Politburo. Wars are also a lot less feasible now (thanks, ironically, to the cancer that is social media) than they used to be - people will bypass the media and shit all over the military industrial complex saber rattling. The establishment's control over narratives is at historic lows - that's why you're seeing increasing censorship - "consent of the governed" is getting a lot harder to manufacture. I'm pretty sure NYT would not be able to sell Iraq war to the public in 2021. I like that. I wish there was a less society-damaging way to achieve the same effect, but there doesn't seem to be one.
- naasking 5y ago
  These are all very good points. The ability for misinformation to propagate means that manufacturing consent has become a lot harder. As we've seen with COVID, that has some downsides, but it also has upsides because selling war is going to be a lot harder. Every tool has light and a dark side.
  - m0zg 5y ago
    Think of it this way: the establishment is merely not a single source of misinformation anymore. Misinformation was always easy to propagate. I'd say easier, in fact. See e.g. Iraq war - 100% disinfo, parroted uniformly and enthusiastically by the entirety of the mainstream press. Except in the past you could create (via mass media controlled by, quite literally, five people) an airtight, completely impenetrable narrative and feed it to the public, and now the public can get both the information, and conflicting disinformation elsewhere. Oops. Bet the CIA did not think of that when they helped create Twitter and Facebook.
- jrumbut 5y ago
  I've seen a lot more blanket skepticism and cynicism, but these new views are often as uncritical as the credulity they replaced (and as easily exploited). I haven't really seen an increase in people doing the hard work of gathering facts, considering new perspectives, and challenging their own assumptions or prior beliefs. It's more like switching from uncritical consumption of NYT to uncritical consumption of YouTube. I did like your idea that this could be a good thing though, not sure I believe it yet.
  - m0zg 5y ago
    If all we get from this is the impossibility of droning children in the Middle East, it's a worthwhile tradeoff in my view. But I feel like we'll get more than that, in time.
    - jrumbut 5y ago
      We've kept a lot of drones in the region, and have continued using them (though at a reduced pace). I hope you're right that it will become an impossibility but I really doubt it.

dragonwriter 5y ago

> Critical thinking is at an all-time low in Western society. I think you are viewing the past through rose-colored glasses.

glitchc 5y ago
Fair enough. Perhaps it's better to say that we seem to be in a local minimum right now.

m0zg 5y ago

I'd actually say critical thinking has seen considerable improvement in the past few years. For one thing people no longer unconditionally trust the press and government institutions like they used to in, say '00s, and instead see them for what they are - a little more than Pravda and Politburo. Wars are also a lot less feasible now (thanks, ironically, to the cancer that is social media) than they used to be - people will bypass the media and shit all over the military industrial complex saber rattling. The establishment's control over narratives is at historic lows - that's why you're seeing increasing censorship - "consent of the governed" is getting a lot harder to manufacture. I'm pretty sure NYT would not be able to sell Iraq war to the public in 2021. I like that. I wish there was a less society-damaging way to achieve the same effect, but there doesn't seem to be one.

naasking 5y ago
These are all very good points. The ability for misinformation to propagate means that manufacturing consent has become a lot harder. As we've seen with COVID, that has some downsides, but it also has upsides because selling war is going to be a lot harder. Every tool has light and a dark side.
- m0zg 5y ago
  Think of it this way: the establishment is merely not a single source of misinformation anymore. Misinformation was always easy to propagate. I'd say easier, in fact. See e.g. Iraq war - 100% disinfo, parroted uniformly and enthusiastically by the entirety of the mainstream press. Except in the past you could create (via mass media controlled by, quite literally, five people) an airtight, completely impenetrable narrative and feed it to the public, and now the public can get both the information, and conflicting disinformation elsewhere. Oops. Bet the CIA did not think of that when they helped create Twitter and Facebook.
jrumbut 5y ago
I've seen a lot more blanket skepticism and cynicism, but these new views are often as uncritical as the credulity they replaced (and as easily exploited). I haven't really seen an increase in people doing the hard work of gathering facts, considering new perspectives, and challenging their own assumptions or prior beliefs. It's more like switching from uncritical consumption of NYT to uncritical consumption of YouTube. I did like your idea that this could be a good thing though, not sure I believe it yet.
- m0zg 5y ago
  If all we get from this is the impossibility of droning children in the Middle East, it's a worthwhile tradeoff in my view. But I feel like we'll get more than that, in time.
  - jrumbut 5y ago
    We've kept a lot of drones in the region, and have continued using them (though at a reduced pace). I hope you're right that it will become an impossibility but I really doubt it.