4 ms·

I suppose to the extent these channels of communication recruit and radicalise, if they are shut down they will not be able to recruit and radicalise. The act o

by simonh 5y ago

I suppose to the extent these channels of communication recruit and radicalise, if they are shut down they will not be able to recruit and radicalise. The act of shutting them down might infuriate regular users of these channels, but they’re already radicalised anyway.

naasking 5y ago
There is little evidence that radicalization happens online [1]. It seems to require in-person contact to really take root. [1] https://www.rand.org/randeurope/research/projects/internet-and-radicalisation.html https://www.rand.org/randeurope/research/projects/internet-a...
- Pils 5y ago
  That research was published by a libertarian think tank in 2013. Since then, there have been numerous examples of lone wolf terrorist attacks where the perpetrators appeared to have no offline contacts with extremist groups. See: New Zealand shooting, Pittsburgh shooting, etc.
  - fallingknife 5y ago
    There were also lone wolf mass shootings before the internet, so what does this prove?
    - blitzar 5y ago
      That radicalisation does not exclusively happen face to face and that it can be conducted on line, by newsletter, by book, by carrier pigeon.
- xadhominemx 5y ago
  This “study” has been proven to be obviously and demonstrably incorrect in the years since it was published. The authors should retract.
  - fallingknife 5y ago
    source?
    - xadhominemx 5y ago
      Have you read the conclusions of the study? Do they comport with events of the past 5 years? Not at all
      - thereddaikon 5y ago
        If you are going to claim a study is bunk then link another study proving it. empty statements like that prove nothing. that's not science.
        xadhominemx 5y ago
        This study was not really science. They interviewed a few people and then applied their own qualitative analysis to conclude that people cannot be self radicalized fully online. Since they published the study, there have been several major terrorist attacks perpetrated by individuals fully radicalized online.
      - fallingknife 5y ago
        I see. Your source is moral panicking in the news and journalists psychic ability to determine that dangerous radicalism is on the rise without ever bothering with any sort of data collection. Who could argue with that?
- JasonCannon 5y ago
  I promise you from personal experience, radicalization does happen online too.
- Cd00d 5y ago
  I'd like to recommend this podcast about online radicalization, produced by the NYTimes: https://www.nytimes.com/column/rabbit-hole https://www.nytimes.com/column/rabbit-hole
inglor_cz 5y ago
If ISIS can recruit in person by talking to vulnerable people in the right mosques, surely other extremists have backup channels as well.
- simonh 5y ago
  But surely fewer channels means fewer recruits? Ultimately it's about what kind of content these platforms want to publish though.
  - inglor_cz 5y ago
    It might also mean "higher quality recruits".
    - gremloni 5y ago
      And that’s okay. Fewer “higher quality” recruits are easier to go after individually.
      - inglor_cz 5y ago
        History says that well-organized, even if smaller movements, have higher chances of achieving their goals. I can recommend this article about inefficiency of online movements: https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2019/05/in-person-protests-stronger-online-activism-a-walking-life/578905/ https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2019/05/in-pe...
        gremloni 5y ago
        You can say the same about forces that work against the criminals as well except they’re well organized and have larger numbers. Your link doesn’t take into account if the chilling effect is what leads to ephemeral online hate movements.
- gremloni 5y ago
  The more someone has to rely on backup channels and then backups of the back channel, the less likely you enroll new members.
burnafter182 5y ago
What you end up with is recruitment. If the user remains on Reddit or Twitter they're exposed to the gamut of human thought. However extreme they may be, they're still attached, there may exist some sort of analogue for a cleavage furrow, but nonetheless the cell remains. It's only at the point where you've so alienated and shorn their attachment to the whole that they become a fully independent entity, and that they become truly radicalized. And having observed this, I can say with sincerity that they move deeper into the domain of extremity.
- gremloni 5y ago
  The point someone is “recruited” is subjective. Either ways cutting out new recruits is a great solution.

by simonh 5y ago

naasking 5y ago

There is little evidence that radicalization happens online [1]. It seems to require in-person contact to really take root. [1] https://www.rand.org/randeurope/research/projects/internet-and-radicalisation.html https://www.rand.org/randeurope/research/projects/internet-a...

Pils 5y ago
That research was published by a libertarian think tank in 2013. Since then, there have been numerous examples of lone wolf terrorist attacks where the perpetrators appeared to have no offline contacts with extremist groups. See: New Zealand shooting, Pittsburgh shooting, etc.
- fallingknife 5y ago
  There were also lone wolf mass shootings before the internet, so what does this prove?
  - blitzar 5y ago
    That radicalisation does not exclusively happen face to face and that it can be conducted on line, by newsletter, by book, by carrier pigeon.
xadhominemx 5y ago
This “study” has been proven to be obviously and demonstrably incorrect in the years since it was published. The authors should retract.
- fallingknife 5y ago
  source?
  - xadhominemx 5y ago
    Have you read the conclusions of the study? Do they comport with events of the past 5 years? Not at all
    - thereddaikon 5y ago
      If you are going to claim a study is bunk then link another study proving it. empty statements like that prove nothing. that's not science.
      - xadhominemx 5y ago
        This study was not really science. They interviewed a few people and then applied their own qualitative analysis to conclude that people cannot be self radicalized fully online. Since they published the study, there have been several major terrorist attacks perpetrated by individuals fully radicalized online.
    - fallingknife 5y ago
      I see. Your source is moral panicking in the news and journalists psychic ability to determine that dangerous radicalism is on the rise without ever bothering with any sort of data collection. Who could argue with that?
JasonCannon 5y ago
I promise you from personal experience, radicalization does happen online too.
Cd00d 5y ago
I'd like to recommend this podcast about online radicalization, produced by the NYTimes: https://www.nytimes.com/column/rabbit-hole https://www.nytimes.com/column/rabbit-hole

inglor_cz 5y ago

If ISIS can recruit in person by talking to vulnerable people in the right mosques, surely other extremists have backup channels as well.

simonh 5y ago
But surely fewer channels means fewer recruits? Ultimately it's about what kind of content these platforms want to publish though.
- inglor_cz 5y ago
  It might also mean "higher quality recruits".
  - gremloni 5y ago
    And that’s okay. Fewer “higher quality” recruits are easier to go after individually.
    - inglor_cz 5y ago
      History says that well-organized, even if smaller movements, have higher chances of achieving their goals. I can recommend this article about inefficiency of online movements: https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2019/05/in-person-protests-stronger-online-activism-a-walking-life/578905/ https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2019/05/in-pe...
      - gremloni 5y ago
        You can say the same about forces that work against the criminals as well except they’re well organized and have larger numbers. Your link doesn’t take into account if the chilling effect is what leads to ephemeral online hate movements.
gremloni 5y ago
The more someone has to rely on backup channels and then backups of the back channel, the less likely you enroll new members.

burnafter182 5y ago

What you end up with is recruitment. If the user remains on Reddit or Twitter they're exposed to the gamut of human thought. However extreme they may be, they're still attached, there may exist some sort of analogue for a cleavage furrow, but nonetheless the cell remains. It's only at the point where you've so alienated and shorn their attachment to the whole that they become a fully independent entity, and that they become truly radicalized. And having observed this, I can say with sincerity that they move deeper into the domain of extremity.

gremloni 5y ago
The point someone is “recruited” is subjective. Either ways cutting out new recruits is a great solution.