7 ms·

"Out of 130 tests in total, Windows 11 WSL2 Ubuntu 20.04 LTS managed to run at 94% the speed of bare metal Ubuntu 20.04 LTS on the same system. Not bad at all e

"Out of 130 tests in total, Windows 11 WSL2 Ubuntu 20.04 LTS managed to run at 94% the speed of bare metal Ubuntu 20.04 LTS on the same system. Not bad at all especially in the CPU/system benchmarks where in many cases delivered comparable performance to Ubuntu Linux itself"

dandotway 5y ago
WSL2 is paradoxically the best and worst thing to happen to desktop Linux. It is the best thing because it makes Linux so easy to install and get started with on Windows PCs which dominate the market. It is the worst thing because desktop Linux users are no longer forced to dogfood and fix laptop hardware issues, and so these issues will continue to go unfixed, and native desktop Linux installs will thus continue to suffer. Case in point: I've used desktop Linux for more than 20 years and I recently moved to using WSL on Windows because I love having all my hardware devices like my photo printer "just work" on Windows and I love getting great laptop battery life. It looks like the Thinkpad X1 Carbon is the only killer laptop you can buy with Linux preinstalled that has a 4K UHD screen option, but Lenovo makes the buying experience extremely frustrating. Lenovo overprices Thinkpads most of the year and then occasionally does killer sales. And Lenovo has lately been suffering 4 month shipping delays on many Thinkpad configurations. I'm sick of wasting time waiting for the sales and then trying to buy before the reseller bots buy up the deals. So I bought a non-Thinkpad Win 10 laptop instead and I run WSL on it for my Linux needs.
- fartcannon 5y ago
  Windows is just so much worse in every way, the idea that someone would prefer to use it over Linux as a desktop confounds me. Linux: fast, private, under your control, user empowering. Windows: slow, spyware, under microsofts control and works to wrench power from the user. Just blows my mind.
  - halo37253 5y ago
    Windows isn't really slow though... That being said I hate windows 11 and the choices made. While I love windows 10, as it mainly just works and was a big set up from 7. I use Linux nearly 90% of the time in server space. With Windows VM's mostly for the AD Domain Controller and Print Server, as Windows AD in a Azure AD Hybrid setup works great for user control. Integrates into my Linux server for a synced user control. The Linux alt is a janky option. Keeping user accounts locked down is pretty important for production systems. The Linux desktop scene however is a great deal better than it used to be. Back in the Day I used to rock opensuse on a IBM T61, everything worked out the box with that install. Something Ubuntu at the time did not do. But the lack of software was always an issue and wine was not what it is today. Office 2000 and other old windows apps ended up working fine.
  - xnyan 5y ago
    I think you're right in that the way you describe windows in terms of speed, privacy and etc is correct (more or less), but I would not say disparity in market share is confounding. >under microsofts control and works to wrench power from the user I think that you and I are alike in that we care how we use a computer, what that computer is, what kind of software runs on it and so on. The key bit of empathy we need to understand the reason why most people use something that "works to wrench power from the user" as you put it, is that in fact most users want that powered wrenched from them because with power comes responsibility and for most people that juice is not worth the squeeze. You can now create documents, communicate with people and consume entertainment (that is to say, most of what most people use a computer for) by doing little more than poking at a limited selection of large rectangles on a screen. Most people are happy with this and it's pretty hard to convince someone that they should spend time from their life on the effort of learning a new UI or an alternative operating system, or even think at all about what their operating system is. Honestly I get their position, and if I didn't care about computers I probably would not either.
- halo37253 5y ago
  Honestly I will get hate for this, but I don't see much of a short-mid term future for linux on the desktop. I know valve will keep pushing gaming forward on linux, but it really takes a back seat and more as a secondary option that is easy to support. Linux on the Server is by far the reality, and windows on the server is mostly for use as a domain controller or print server.
- fgonzag 5y ago
  While WSL2 makes it no longer necessary to switch to Linux, I've seen a ton of people making the switch due to Windows 11. Most things just work, better than on Windows. I just switched a few months ago (after having tried it n times over 20 years), and this is the first time I'm sticking with it. Gaming works (I haven't found any games in my steam library that don't run OOB with proton), all developer productivity tools work, office productivity is solved with the rise of O365/GDocs, as hated as electron is every (or almost every) electron app out there is cross platform. The only things that I haven't found suitable replacements for is graphics editing (I use the affinity suite on a VM), and probably CAD products and the like. But for 95% of users, desktop linux works better than Windows atm, everything works perfectly after installation. Regarding the printer, in Windows I have to go to brother's site and download a driver, I've never had windows auto detect and properly configure a printer + scanner (just the printer, if your lucky). On Linux I just click add printer, it auto detects it and installs it, including the scanner.
- GekkePrutser 5y ago
  At work they are already treating Linux on Desktop as a "solved problem" due to WSL2 (especially due to the Microsoft marketing around it!) Microsoft is basically telling us "Here you go, your developers can do their weird dev thingies now, so you don't have to bother with that Linux desktop stuff anymore. We've killed their last excuses." I think this is a really bad thing to happen to Linux. Microsoft Loves Linux?? More like Embrace, Extend, Extinguish. They're trying again to displace the Linux desktop marketshare, small as it already is, by pushing it into the software dev niche. Personally I use Linux because I don't want to use Windows, with their choices made on my behalf and telemetry that can't be turned off etc. It's because I like choosing my own desktop environment, because I like full control of my machine, because I like to choose whether I want to use a TPM or not. It's not because I wanted to use some dev toolchain or something. I want to use Linux because I love Linux. Not because Windows wasn't good enough for my purposes.
  - dandotway 5y ago
    Main reason I gave up on desktop Linux after 20 years is that Gnome is being forced on us and software is no longer playing as nice on traditional X11 window managers. I use HiDPI 4K screens and if you use a traditional window manager like FVWM which doesn't do all the modern desktop bus systemd stuff then you are outta luck. echo 'Xft.dpi: 192' | xrdb -merge Is the first step to getting hidpi to work. But some 'modern' apps ignore this, but might respond to export GDK_SCALE=2 But then there are apps which respond to both of these settings and give you 400% scaling, or give you 400% scaling for some UI elements, 200% for other UI elements.... I just installed Windows, set my desktop to 200% scaling and I was all done and could finally start doing work again that actually makes money, and I even have more spare time for HN now that I don't have to constantly study the Arch Wiki to fix the next broken Linux thing. Windows is actually better for online privacy because a Windows browser is so much more mainstream. If you are broadcasting your "Linux" OS in your browser User-Agent string to every website you visit you are not terribly anonymous online because you are broadcasting you are among the elite 1% of computer users. Yes, you can install a browser extension to say your User-Agent is Windows, but have you?
    - 5y ago
- mixmastamyk 5y ago
  I've been using Dell developer laptops with 4k+ screens and Linux for over five years. Haven't had any scaling issues either, since my external monitor is 4k as well.
  - dandotway 5y ago
    I've been eyeing a Dell XPS Developer Edition for a long time but other HNers told me it suffers noticeable coil whine. Have you noticed any coil whine on the XPS? There was also a story 5 days ago that putting an XPS in a bag voids its warranty unless it is completely powered off. Dell says you can't just close the lid to put the laptop in a sleep state before throwing it in your backpack: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28639952 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28639952 (Of course, this could just be a CYA cover-your-ass clause that Dell's lawyers said to throw in to reduce lawsuit losses from lithium battery fires that affect all laptop makers including Apple. If the sales losses from this CYA clause's bad publicity are less than the reduction in lawsuit losses then I guess it's a win for Dell's balance sheet. I haven't seen any evidence that Dells are more prone to fires than any other brand.) EDIT: I was just reading the linked XPS thread and it sounds like the overheating issue is due to a change in how sleep states were traditionally handled (S1/S3 etc.). This affects all Windows laptops, not just the XPS. A Linux XPS can actually avoid the issue if Linux sleep states are configured correctly, according to posters in the discussion.
    - mixmastamyk 5y ago
      Never knew what coil whine was, but it does make a “dit dit” sound when I move the mouse onscreen. I don’t notice however unless in an absolutely quiet room with my ear tilted to keyboard. Never had issues with sleep.

dandotway 5y ago

WSL2 is paradoxically the best and worst thing to happen to desktop Linux. It is the best thing because it makes Linux so easy to install and get started with on Windows PCs which dominate the market. It is the worst thing because desktop Linux users are no longer forced to dogfood and fix laptop hardware issues, and so these issues will continue to go unfixed, and native desktop Linux installs will thus continue to suffer. Case in point: I've used desktop Linux for more than 20 years and I recently moved to using WSL on Windows because I love having all my hardware devices like my photo printer "just work" on Windows and I love getting great laptop battery life. It looks like the Thinkpad X1 Carbon is the only killer laptop you can buy with Linux preinstalled that has a 4K UHD screen option, but Lenovo makes the buying experience extremely frustrating. Lenovo overprices Thinkpads most of the year and then occasionally does killer sales. And Lenovo has lately been suffering 4 month shipping delays on many Thinkpad configurations. I'm sick of wasting time waiting for the sales and then trying to buy before the reseller bots buy up the deals. So I bought a non-Thinkpad Win 10 laptop instead and I run WSL on it for my Linux needs.

fartcannon 5y ago
Windows is just so much worse in every way, the idea that someone would prefer to use it over Linux as a desktop confounds me. Linux: fast, private, under your control, user empowering. Windows: slow, spyware, under microsofts control and works to wrench power from the user. Just blows my mind.
- halo37253 5y ago
  Windows isn't really slow though... That being said I hate windows 11 and the choices made. While I love windows 10, as it mainly just works and was a big set up from 7. I use Linux nearly 90% of the time in server space. With Windows VM's mostly for the AD Domain Controller and Print Server, as Windows AD in a Azure AD Hybrid setup works great for user control. Integrates into my Linux server for a synced user control. The Linux alt is a janky option. Keeping user accounts locked down is pretty important for production systems. The Linux desktop scene however is a great deal better than it used to be. Back in the Day I used to rock opensuse on a IBM T61, everything worked out the box with that install. Something Ubuntu at the time did not do. But the lack of software was always an issue and wine was not what it is today. Office 2000 and other old windows apps ended up working fine.
- xnyan 5y ago
  I think you're right in that the way you describe windows in terms of speed, privacy and etc is correct (more or less), but I would not say disparity in market share is confounding. >under microsofts control and works to wrench power from the user I think that you and I are alike in that we care how we use a computer, what that computer is, what kind of software runs on it and so on. The key bit of empathy we need to understand the reason why most people use something that "works to wrench power from the user" as you put it, is that in fact most users want that powered wrenched from them because with power comes responsibility and for most people that juice is not worth the squeeze. You can now create documents, communicate with people and consume entertainment (that is to say, most of what most people use a computer for) by doing little more than poking at a limited selection of large rectangles on a screen. Most people are happy with this and it's pretty hard to convince someone that they should spend time from their life on the effort of learning a new UI or an alternative operating system, or even think at all about what their operating system is. Honestly I get their position, and if I didn't care about computers I probably would not either.
halo37253 5y ago
Honestly I will get hate for this, but I don't see much of a short-mid term future for linux on the desktop. I know valve will keep pushing gaming forward on linux, but it really takes a back seat and more as a secondary option that is easy to support. Linux on the Server is by far the reality, and windows on the server is mostly for use as a domain controller or print server.
fgonzag 5y ago
While WSL2 makes it no longer necessary to switch to Linux, I've seen a ton of people making the switch due to Windows 11. Most things just work, better than on Windows. I just switched a few months ago (after having tried it n times over 20 years), and this is the first time I'm sticking with it. Gaming works (I haven't found any games in my steam library that don't run OOB with proton), all developer productivity tools work, office productivity is solved with the rise of O365/GDocs, as hated as electron is every (or almost every) electron app out there is cross platform. The only things that I haven't found suitable replacements for is graphics editing (I use the affinity suite on a VM), and probably CAD products and the like. But for 95% of users, desktop linux works better than Windows atm, everything works perfectly after installation. Regarding the printer, in Windows I have to go to brother's site and download a driver, I've never had windows auto detect and properly configure a printer + scanner (just the printer, if your lucky). On Linux I just click add printer, it auto detects it and installs it, including the scanner.
GekkePrutser 5y ago
At work they are already treating Linux on Desktop as a "solved problem" due to WSL2 (especially due to the Microsoft marketing around it!) Microsoft is basically telling us "Here you go, your developers can do their weird dev thingies now, so you don't have to bother with that Linux desktop stuff anymore. We've killed their last excuses." I think this is a really bad thing to happen to Linux. Microsoft Loves Linux?? More like Embrace, Extend, Extinguish. They're trying again to displace the Linux desktop marketshare, small as it already is, by pushing it into the software dev niche. Personally I use Linux because I don't want to use Windows, with their choices made on my behalf and telemetry that can't be turned off etc. It's because I like choosing my own desktop environment, because I like full control of my machine, because I like to choose whether I want to use a TPM or not. It's not because I wanted to use some dev toolchain or something. I want to use Linux because I love Linux. Not because Windows wasn't good enough for my purposes.
- dandotway 5y ago
  Main reason I gave up on desktop Linux after 20 years is that Gnome is being forced on us and software is no longer playing as nice on traditional X11 window managers. I use HiDPI 4K screens and if you use a traditional window manager like FVWM which doesn't do all the modern desktop bus systemd stuff then you are outta luck. echo 'Xft.dpi: 192' | xrdb -merge Is the first step to getting hidpi to work. But some 'modern' apps ignore this, but might respond to export GDK_SCALE=2 But then there are apps which respond to both of these settings and give you 400% scaling, or give you 400% scaling for some UI elements, 200% for other UI elements.... I just installed Windows, set my desktop to 200% scaling and I was all done and could finally start doing work again that actually makes money, and I even have more spare time for HN now that I don't have to constantly study the Arch Wiki to fix the next broken Linux thing. Windows is actually better for online privacy because a Windows browser is so much more mainstream. If you are broadcasting your "Linux" OS in your browser User-Agent string to every website you visit you are not terribly anonymous online because you are broadcasting you are among the elite 1% of computer users. Yes, you can install a browser extension to say your User-Agent is Windows, but have you?
  - 5y ago
mixmastamyk 5y ago
I've been using Dell developer laptops with 4k+ screens and Linux for over five years. Haven't had any scaling issues either, since my external monitor is 4k as well.
- dandotway 5y ago
  I've been eyeing a Dell XPS Developer Edition for a long time but other HNers told me it suffers noticeable coil whine. Have you noticed any coil whine on the XPS? There was also a story 5 days ago that putting an XPS in a bag voids its warranty unless it is completely powered off. Dell says you can't just close the lid to put the laptop in a sleep state before throwing it in your backpack: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28639952 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28639952 (Of course, this could just be a CYA cover-your-ass clause that Dell's lawyers said to throw in to reduce lawsuit losses from lithium battery fires that affect all laptop makers including Apple. If the sales losses from this CYA clause's bad publicity are less than the reduction in lawsuit losses then I guess it's a win for Dell's balance sheet. I haven't seen any evidence that Dells are more prone to fires than any other brand.) EDIT: I was just reading the linked XPS thread and it sounds like the overheating issue is due to a change in how sleep states were traditionally handled (S1/S3 etc.). This affects all Windows laptops, not just the XPS. A Linux XPS can actually avoid the issue if Linux sleep states are configured correctly, according to posters in the discussion.
  - mixmastamyk 5y ago
    Never knew what coil whine was, but it does make a “dit dit” sound when I move the mouse onscreen. I don’t notice however unless in an absolutely quiet room with my ear tilted to keyboard. Never had issues with sleep.