4 ms·

Can one agree that black lives matter, without needing to support the tactics of the 'Black Lives Matter' organization? Still a white supremacist?

pnutjam 5y ago
It's a tricky line. I'd err on the side of "disregard that rascist", but that's me. If you find yourself taking about how BLM is bad alot, you're probably dealing with some racism that you can't see in yourself.
balancemayvary 5y ago
Can one agree that black lives matter, without being a white supremacist: yes. (good so far) ...without needing to support the tactics of the "BLM organization"? The presupposition that BLM is a single, organized monolith begins to wander into the grey area. Local orgs spring up. Most often, this goes unreported on. When the white+neoliberal news organizations find a "BLM group" that does something they can skew, THAT one gets all the media coverage.
- jtdev 5y ago
  That's like saying: "The nazi youth was not a monolith." See how your logic is flawed? Maybe stop associating with a violent, anti-family organization like BLM if you don't want to be lumped in with the contingent burning down cities, looting, and encouraging/inciting violence against others based purely on skin color.
  - balancemayvary 5y ago
    Lol, mask off. I don't debate bad-faith actors, and that's all this reply is; sensationalist and fantastical; not rooted in the reality. "Burning down cities"; a few buildings across seperate incidents. Reporting focused entirely on senstationalizing that, and ignored the very real, very NEEDED progress made by the remainder of the protests. Just pre-empptively (because I won't be further replying to this sub-sub-thread): It's well documented that inciting of violence is OFTEN done by undercover cops, well-to-do-white-supremacist-home-owners-using-spray-paint-for-the-first-time and neo-nazis. Edit: One more thing I can't let slide: Families can organize traditionally. Some don't get the privelege to choose; violence campaigns of austerity ripped apart their neighborhoods. Others self-determine that the traditional family structure doesn't suit them. Autonomy means we should be able to choose... ...either way, the forced assumption that "BLM is anti-family" is...WOW! This is a movement about family members having their loved one's LIVES ripped away by Illegitimate State Violence. ...The mental gymnastics you'd have to do to logically rest with the idea that BLM is somehow "anti-family", wow, ok buddy. So nope, your little yugi-oh card does is not such a good uno-reverso, after all ♥
    - xupybd 5y ago
      Are neo Nazis still active enough to be a significant part of the conflict around BLM? I was under the impression that while they're hateful and dangerous aholes, there numbers were so low to that interactions with them were rare?
      - balancemayvary 5y ago
        https://twitter.com/VicBergerIV/status/1306805724975046659 https://twitter.com/VicBergerIV/status/1306805724975046659 This supercut should illustrate the way neo-nazis such as the proud boys [1] are normalized and swept under the rug. Some 30% of the US voters will enthusiastically support such groups, and another ~20% happily look the other way. Fascism is like a weed that must be continually demonstrated against. Else you end up with police departments executing their own countrymen in the street, pregnant and naked, gun to the back of the head; convinced that if they don't they "betray their brothers in arms". [2] It is an insidious ideology brought about by increasingly desperate conditions of the proletariat and stoked by "might makes right" worship of the "glorious leader". [1] https://www.rawstory.com/2020/11/civil-war-brewing-inside-proud-boys-as-top-leader-says-hes-done-pretending-isnt-a-nazi/ https://www.rawstory.com/2020/11/civil-war-brewing-inside-pr... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Police https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Police Learn from history, because it's already repeating itself.
        jtdev 5y ago
        Antifa/BLM are an actual, literal, manifestation of fascism. You're not absolved through your quasi-moralistic rambling: https://twitter.com/Real_VinceJames/status/1442747701561487360 https://twitter.com/Real_VinceJames/status/14427477015614873... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WyW13shViQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WyW13shViQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbtQpvMD2cc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbtQpvMD2cc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCZBzTm0hEY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCZBzTm0hEY
        xupybd 5y ago
        Ah I see, the term neo-nazi no longer requires a direct connection to the Nazi ideology. I tend to reserve the label for those that follow the philosophy's that inspired the Nazis such as the white supremacists Houston Stewart Chamberlain. I'd expect them to hold to racial purity beliefs. I guess language changes but it does seem imprecise. I'd say one of the dangers history teaches is the mistake of painting the other tribe as a monster. When you no longer see them as human you become a monster yourself and can justify ugly behavior. The other is a fellow human capable of change, of redemption.
  - dang 5y ago
    The two of you broke the site guidelines egregiously with this flamewar. We ban accounts that do that, so no more of this, please—it's not what HN is for and it destroys what it is for. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

pnutjam 5y ago

It's a tricky line. I'd err on the side of "disregard that rascist", but that's me. If you find yourself taking about how BLM is bad alot, you're probably dealing with some racism that you can't see in yourself.

balancemayvary 5y ago

Can one agree that black lives matter, without being a white supremacist: yes. (good so far) ...without needing to support the tactics of the "BLM organization"? The presupposition that BLM is a single, organized monolith begins to wander into the grey area. Local orgs spring up. Most often, this goes unreported on. When the white+neoliberal news organizations find a "BLM group" that does something they can skew, THAT one gets all the media coverage.

jtdev 5y ago
That's like saying: "The nazi youth was not a monolith." See how your logic is flawed? Maybe stop associating with a violent, anti-family organization like BLM if you don't want to be lumped in with the contingent burning down cities, looting, and encouraging/inciting violence against others based purely on skin color.
- balancemayvary 5y ago
  Lol, mask off. I don't debate bad-faith actors, and that's all this reply is; sensationalist and fantastical; not rooted in the reality. "Burning down cities"; a few buildings across seperate incidents. Reporting focused entirely on senstationalizing that, and ignored the very real, very NEEDED progress made by the remainder of the protests. Just pre-empptively (because I won't be further replying to this sub-sub-thread): It's well documented that inciting of violence is OFTEN done by undercover cops, well-to-do-white-supremacist-home-owners-using-spray-paint-for-the-first-time and neo-nazis. Edit: One more thing I can't let slide: Families can organize traditionally. Some don't get the privelege to choose; violence campaigns of austerity ripped apart their neighborhoods. Others self-determine that the traditional family structure doesn't suit them. Autonomy means we should be able to choose... ...either way, the forced assumption that "BLM is anti-family" is...WOW! This is a movement about family members having their loved one's LIVES ripped away by Illegitimate State Violence. ...The mental gymnastics you'd have to do to logically rest with the idea that BLM is somehow "anti-family", wow, ok buddy. So nope, your little yugi-oh card does is not such a good uno-reverso, after all ♥
  - xupybd 5y ago
    Are neo Nazis still active enough to be a significant part of the conflict around BLM? I was under the impression that while they're hateful and dangerous aholes, there numbers were so low to that interactions with them were rare?
    - balancemayvary 5y ago
      https://twitter.com/VicBergerIV/status/1306805724975046659 https://twitter.com/VicBergerIV/status/1306805724975046659 This supercut should illustrate the way neo-nazis such as the proud boys [1] are normalized and swept under the rug. Some 30% of the US voters will enthusiastically support such groups, and another ~20% happily look the other way. Fascism is like a weed that must be continually demonstrated against. Else you end up with police departments executing their own countrymen in the street, pregnant and naked, gun to the back of the head; convinced that if they don't they "betray their brothers in arms". [2] It is an insidious ideology brought about by increasingly desperate conditions of the proletariat and stoked by "might makes right" worship of the "glorious leader". [1] https://www.rawstory.com/2020/11/civil-war-brewing-inside-proud-boys-as-top-leader-says-hes-done-pretending-isnt-a-nazi/ https://www.rawstory.com/2020/11/civil-war-brewing-inside-pr... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Police https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Police Learn from history, because it's already repeating itself.
      - jtdev 5y ago
        Antifa/BLM are an actual, literal, manifestation of fascism. You're not absolved through your quasi-moralistic rambling: https://twitter.com/Real_VinceJames/status/1442747701561487360 https://twitter.com/Real_VinceJames/status/14427477015614873... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WyW13shViQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WyW13shViQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbtQpvMD2cc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbtQpvMD2cc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCZBzTm0hEY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCZBzTm0hEY
      - xupybd 5y ago
        Ah I see, the term neo-nazi no longer requires a direct connection to the Nazi ideology. I tend to reserve the label for those that follow the philosophy's that inspired the Nazis such as the white supremacists Houston Stewart Chamberlain. I'd expect them to hold to racial purity beliefs. I guess language changes but it does seem imprecise. I'd say one of the dangers history teaches is the mistake of painting the other tribe as a monster. When you no longer see them as human you become a monster yourself and can justify ugly behavior. The other is a fellow human capable of change, of redemption.
- dang 5y ago
  The two of you broke the site guidelines egregiously with this flamewar. We ban accounts that do that, so no more of this, please—it's not what HN is for and it destroys what it is for. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html