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I was banned from a Reddit sub for saying that a previous Covid infection probably infers some immunity. This was around 8 months ago. Now EU vaccine passport

I was banned from a Reddit sub for saying that a previous Covid infection probably infers some immunity. This was around 8 months ago. Now EU vaccine passports accept a recovery from infection as being sufficient proof of immunity. On top of that now it's coming out that the Canadian military/government (and likely others) was intentionally deploying propaganda to make the populace more compliant. This is why moderate voices are being drowned out. I got vaccinated pretty much as soon as it was available to me. Yet to some on the left, I'm a rabid anti-vaxxer (!?!) and to my anti-vaxx friends, a sell-out (ironically, they're far less angry, just disappointed in me for not pushing back against government overreach).

trident5000 5y ago
The mere suggestion that covid came out of a lab was banned by youtube, and downvoted by Reddit and HN heavily at the time. You were considered a crazy person. Now its the leading theory. It shows how fast people listen to authoritarians in desperate times despite common sense lingering in the background. That phenomenon has led to terrible events in the past and carries forward today. If someone says you cant discuss/debate something be suspicious.
- bryan0 5y ago
  You make a good point, but to be clear a lab leak is not "the leading theory", it is a plausible theory.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - pstrateman 5y ago
    It's clear that COVID-19 is a bat virus isolated in or near laos that was then modified by EcoHealth Alliance and Peter Daszak such that it can infect humans at the WIV or the nearby Chinese equivalent to the CDC. All of the investigations into the origin of COVID-19 have Daszak on their advisory boards, the conflict of interest is literally insane. The idea that a lab leak isn't the most likely cause is just willful ignorance at this point. https://www.cnn.com/videos/health/2021/03/26/sanjay-gupta-exclusive-robert-redfield-coronavirus-opinion-origin-sot-intv-newday-vpx.cnn https://www.cnn.com/videos/health/2021/03/26/sanjay-gupta-ex... [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28656209 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28656209 [2] https://theintercept.com/2021/09/23/coronavirus-research-grant-darpa/ https://theintercept.com/2021/09/23/coronavirus-research-gra...
  - Mikeb85 5y ago
    When it goes from a 'racist conspiracy theory' to something that mainstream politicians and the media are talking about while the west is isolating China for not-so-obvious reasons, it becomes a leading theory. The amount of anti-China propaganda has been steadily increasing while the wet-market theory has been all but buried.
  - esja 5y ago
    It is the leading theory though, isn’t it? The alternative (zoonotic transfer with no lab involvement) still has far less evidence to support it.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
gorwell 5y ago
Can you provide more info re: compliance propaganda? I haven't heard about that.
- Mikeb85 5y ago
  There was an article on the front page of HN about it yesterday (maybe day before). Became decently big news in Canada. https://ottawacitizen.com/news/national/defence-watch/military-leaders-saw-pandemic-as-unique-opportunity-to-test-propaganda-techniques-on-canadians-forces-report-says https://ottawacitizen.com/news/national/defence-watch/milita...
apostacy 5y ago
YouTube does not deserve our trust. We've seen repeatedly over the last two years truthful and helpful warnings classified as dangerous misinformation by big tech platforms. First they censored people warning us about COVID itself, then they censored people saying we should wear masks, then they censored any talk of it coming from a lab. Every time citizens try to spread the truth, they are censored. Sometimes the truth becomes so obvious that they can't censor anymore. Facebook is directly responsible for censoring American expat groups in China that were trying to warn their families about COVID in late 2019. Facebook has no problem shielding criminals and dictators for money[1]. They will eagerly censor innocent people speaking truth to power. Corporate America will protect its interests from the people. They are invested in a new normal, and China, and they will censor us to protect their investments. Even if something was wrong with the vaccines, or there was some effective new treatment, they would censor it regardless. So why should we ever big tech platforms the benefit of the doubt? [1]: https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2021/03/sheryl-sandberg-and-top-facebook-execs-silenced-an-enemy-of-turkey-to-prevent-a-hit-to-the-companys-business/ https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2021/03/sheryl-sandberg...
- brianobush 5y ago
  > Every time citizens try to spread the truth, they are censored. You actually mean spread an opinion. I doubt any one citizen would conduct a trial or research; some may actually look at data, but that is rare. These are opinions, most likely biased by a belief.
  - apostacy 5y ago
    > You actually mean spread an opinion. I doubt any one citizen would conduct a trial or research; some may actually look at data, but that is rare. These are opinions, most likely biased by a belief. You could say that about most breaking news. It is not reasonable to expect people to conduct a rigorous field research before sharing their observations, especially if people's lives are on the line. I distinctly remember citizen journalists sharing videos and pictures of the chaos in China at the end of 2019, trying to warn us. I remember all the tech platforms and our media doing everything they could to suppress it.
TheBlight 5y ago
Anyone who shames you for taking/not taking a form of medicine can safely be ignored. I know it's easier said than done but things like HIPAA exist for a reason. It's no one's business.
- lostlogin 5y ago
  It’s everyone’s business. Vaccinations are to protect a population. Some industries require vaccinations before the employee can work and this isn’t a new behaviour. Not looking after staff and those the staff interact with would seem negligent and a potential liability.
  - eek430 5y ago
    I agree, we should also require people to disclose their sexually transmitted diseases publicly. Especially HIV, which is fatal when left untreated and for all but the most wealthy it's detected so late it's a death sentence. It's important that we insure these people with HIV are not only publicly shamed, but also are barred from employment where they may transmit their disease. This is what you mean, right? A real deadly disease being an actual public health concern, to the point that we should not only publicly shame people, but also bar them from employment?
    - bryan0 5y ago
      It is illegal in many places not to disclose HIV status with sexual partners. If you could transmit HIV by just being in the same room with someone for 15 minutes, then absolutely you should be required to disclose it.
    - jeltz 5y ago
      You are already required to disclose it, just not publicly, so I do not get your point.
      - willcipriano 5y ago
        > Thanks to California Senate Bill 329, as of January 1, 2017, it is no longer a felony for people who are HIV-positive to have unprotected sex and not disclose their status.[0] [0]https://www.shouselaw.com/ca/blog/laws/do-i-have-to-tell-a-sexual-partner-that-i-am-hiv-positive-in-california/ https://www.shouselaw.com/ca/blog/laws/do-i-have-to-tell-a-s...
mountainriver 5y ago
Reddit has a way of drowning out moderate voices which is why I no longer use it
- mumblemumble 5y ago
  It's not just Reddit. One of the tragedies of the Internet is that it deprives people of the opportunity to see the faces of everyone in the room when someone's talking. In real life, you can see that two people are loudly arguing and the other eight people in the room are looking at each other uncomfortably, or wandering away and congregating in a different room. On the Internet, you're not even aware of anyone but the hotheads, so it's all too easy to forget that they exist, and come to believe that their opinions are normal. Which, since nobody likes to feel like they're the only one who thinks a certain way, probably does end up discouraging people from having moderate opinions over the long run.
  - 09bjb 5y ago
    Well said, seconded. The tragedy of the uncommons.
  - maerF0x0 5y ago
    +1 another side effect of internet is normalization of fringe behavior. Imagine some subculture/behavior that expresses one in 100k (0.0001% of people). And imagine most people know something on the order of 1000 ppl IRL. If those subcultured people congregate on the internet (~4.5B) we find a group of about 45k people which overwhelmingly validates that behavior to the group because it's a group so much larger than everyone they know in real life. It feels like it's so much more normal (as in within a std deviation) than it truly is. It's totally benign when it's something like fans of silly hats, but also quite dark when its a criminal behavior.
    - esja 5y ago
      This one factor explains so many of the niche issues that have exploded into the “mainstream”. Or more accurately: they’ve created an illusion of being mainstream. This effect is so strong that some of the topics can barely be discussed any more without putting livelihoods and even personal safety at risk.
n3dm 5y ago
Sounds about right for reddit. It is anti free speech and anti education. If it sounds good but is made up and spreading lies, top of the posts you go.

trident5000 5y ago

The mere suggestion that covid came out of a lab was banned by youtube, and downvoted by Reddit and HN heavily at the time. You were considered a crazy person. Now its the leading theory. It shows how fast people listen to authoritarians in desperate times despite common sense lingering in the background. That phenomenon has led to terrible events in the past and carries forward today. If someone says you cant discuss/debate something be suspicious.

bryan0 5y ago
You make a good point, but to be clear a lab leak is not "the leading theory", it is a plausible theory.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- pstrateman 5y ago
  It's clear that COVID-19 is a bat virus isolated in or near laos that was then modified by EcoHealth Alliance and Peter Daszak such that it can infect humans at the WIV or the nearby Chinese equivalent to the CDC. All of the investigations into the origin of COVID-19 have Daszak on their advisory boards, the conflict of interest is literally insane. The idea that a lab leak isn't the most likely cause is just willful ignorance at this point. https://www.cnn.com/videos/health/2021/03/26/sanjay-gupta-exclusive-robert-redfield-coronavirus-opinion-origin-sot-intv-newday-vpx.cnn https://www.cnn.com/videos/health/2021/03/26/sanjay-gupta-ex... [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28656209 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28656209 [2] https://theintercept.com/2021/09/23/coronavirus-research-grant-darpa/ https://theintercept.com/2021/09/23/coronavirus-research-gra...
- Mikeb85 5y ago
  When it goes from a 'racist conspiracy theory' to something that mainstream politicians and the media are talking about while the west is isolating China for not-so-obvious reasons, it becomes a leading theory. The amount of anti-China propaganda has been steadily increasing while the wet-market theory has been all but buried.
- esja 5y ago
  It is the leading theory though, isn’t it? The alternative (zoonotic transfer with no lab involvement) still has far less evidence to support it.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

gorwell 5y ago

Can you provide more info re: compliance propaganda? I haven't heard about that.

Mikeb85 5y ago
There was an article on the front page of HN about it yesterday (maybe day before). Became decently big news in Canada. https://ottawacitizen.com/news/national/defence-watch/military-leaders-saw-pandemic-as-unique-opportunity-to-test-propaganda-techniques-on-canadians-forces-report-says https://ottawacitizen.com/news/national/defence-watch/milita...

apostacy 5y ago

YouTube does not deserve our trust. We've seen repeatedly over the last two years truthful and helpful warnings classified as dangerous misinformation by big tech platforms. First they censored people warning us about COVID itself, then they censored people saying we should wear masks, then they censored any talk of it coming from a lab. Every time citizens try to spread the truth, they are censored. Sometimes the truth becomes so obvious that they can't censor anymore. Facebook is directly responsible for censoring American expat groups in China that were trying to warn their families about COVID in late 2019. Facebook has no problem shielding criminals and dictators for money[1]. They will eagerly censor innocent people speaking truth to power. Corporate America will protect its interests from the people. They are invested in a new normal, and China, and they will censor us to protect their investments. Even if something was wrong with the vaccines, or there was some effective new treatment, they would censor it regardless. So why should we ever big tech platforms the benefit of the doubt? [1]: https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2021/03/sheryl-sandberg-and-top-facebook-execs-silenced-an-enemy-of-turkey-to-prevent-a-hit-to-the-companys-business/ https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2021/03/sheryl-sandberg...

brianobush 5y ago
> Every time citizens try to spread the truth, they are censored. You actually mean spread an opinion. I doubt any one citizen would conduct a trial or research; some may actually look at data, but that is rare. These are opinions, most likely biased by a belief.
- apostacy 5y ago
  > You actually mean spread an opinion. I doubt any one citizen would conduct a trial or research; some may actually look at data, but that is rare. These are opinions, most likely biased by a belief. You could say that about most breaking news. It is not reasonable to expect people to conduct a rigorous field research before sharing their observations, especially if people's lives are on the line. I distinctly remember citizen journalists sharing videos and pictures of the chaos in China at the end of 2019, trying to warn us. I remember all the tech platforms and our media doing everything they could to suppress it.

TheBlight 5y ago

Anyone who shames you for taking/not taking a form of medicine can safely be ignored. I know it's easier said than done but things like HIPAA exist for a reason. It's no one's business.

lostlogin 5y ago
It’s everyone’s business. Vaccinations are to protect a population. Some industries require vaccinations before the employee can work and this isn’t a new behaviour. Not looking after staff and those the staff interact with would seem negligent and a potential liability.
- eek430 5y ago
  I agree, we should also require people to disclose their sexually transmitted diseases publicly. Especially HIV, which is fatal when left untreated and for all but the most wealthy it's detected so late it's a death sentence. It's important that we insure these people with HIV are not only publicly shamed, but also are barred from employment where they may transmit their disease. This is what you mean, right? A real deadly disease being an actual public health concern, to the point that we should not only publicly shame people, but also bar them from employment?
  - bryan0 5y ago
    It is illegal in many places not to disclose HIV status with sexual partners. If you could transmit HIV by just being in the same room with someone for 15 minutes, then absolutely you should be required to disclose it.
  - jeltz 5y ago
    You are already required to disclose it, just not publicly, so I do not get your point.
    - willcipriano 5y ago
      > Thanks to California Senate Bill 329, as of January 1, 2017, it is no longer a felony for people who are HIV-positive to have unprotected sex and not disclose their status.[0] [0]https://www.shouselaw.com/ca/blog/laws/do-i-have-to-tell-a-sexual-partner-that-i-am-hiv-positive-in-california/ https://www.shouselaw.com/ca/blog/laws/do-i-have-to-tell-a-s...

mountainriver 5y ago

Reddit has a way of drowning out moderate voices which is why I no longer use it

mumblemumble 5y ago
It's not just Reddit. One of the tragedies of the Internet is that it deprives people of the opportunity to see the faces of everyone in the room when someone's talking. In real life, you can see that two people are loudly arguing and the other eight people in the room are looking at each other uncomfortably, or wandering away and congregating in a different room. On the Internet, you're not even aware of anyone but the hotheads, so it's all too easy to forget that they exist, and come to believe that their opinions are normal. Which, since nobody likes to feel like they're the only one who thinks a certain way, probably does end up discouraging people from having moderate opinions over the long run.
- 09bjb 5y ago
  Well said, seconded. The tragedy of the uncommons.
- maerF0x0 5y ago
  +1 another side effect of internet is normalization of fringe behavior. Imagine some subculture/behavior that expresses one in 100k (0.0001% of people). And imagine most people know something on the order of 1000 ppl IRL. If those subcultured people congregate on the internet (~4.5B) we find a group of about 45k people which overwhelmingly validates that behavior to the group because it's a group so much larger than everyone they know in real life. It feels like it's so much more normal (as in within a std deviation) than it truly is. It's totally benign when it's something like fans of silly hats, but also quite dark when its a criminal behavior.
  - esja 5y ago
    This one factor explains so many of the niche issues that have exploded into the “mainstream”. Or more accurately: they’ve created an illusion of being mainstream. This effect is so strong that some of the topics can barely be discussed any more without putting livelihoods and even personal safety at risk.

n3dm 5y ago

Sounds about right for reddit. It is anti free speech and anti education. If it sounds good but is made up and spreading lies, top of the posts you go.