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I'm fresh off a visit to the Technisches Museum in Vienna which has an absolutely superb collection of steam-age technology from the first and second industrial

I'm fresh off a visit to the Technisches Museum in Vienna which has an absolutely superb collection of steam-age technology from the first and second industrial revolutions. It is a steampunk's playground. The collection also does an awesome job of putting the past 300 years of technical progress into a kind of perspective. I am an environmentalist, but the objections to heavy industry seem a bit quaint when faced with the weight and capability of all modern society. Maybe I'm a bit humbled right now. It seems increasingly ridiculous that we could solve our pollution problems with solar panels and trees and equally ridiculous that we could put any of our magic back in Pandora's box. I'm not sure what the solution is. Maybe there isn't one but to deal with the consequences as best we can.

artpi 5y ago
Hey, OP here. The problem won't solve itself and we have to be wary of greenwashing. But as John Carmack says, we need tales to inspire, not tales to condemn. If we set our goals as just mediating damage, that's what we'll do. Only by having more ambitious goals, we will find out what's possible. Yes, we have work to do.
- dougmwne 5y ago
  Per aspera ad astra.
hosh 5y ago
I have been disappointed with Solarpunk as a movement, aestheric, and literary genre. Have you looked into the groups like permaculture, regenerative agriculture, Stamet’s work with mycology, Dr John Todd’s work on ecovats ? The earthship designs? What about the practices Cuba had to adopt when they were under embargo, and could no longer import oil or synthetic fertilizer? There are a lot of things we can do. There are already solutions that work. People are doing them. They require a shift in how you view the world. By comparison, solar panels and wind turbines are simplistic solutions that do not adequately address these problems. I am coming to the conclusion that more technology will not solve these problems because the world view and paradigm that spawned these technologies are what lead us here. That rather than viewing the world as if it were mechanisms that can be reduced to isolated, cause-and-effects, and solutions that come from acting upon things in the system through the application of some kind of force, one can see the world as a living system, that is capable of growth of regeneration. This not only includes ecologies and our individual bodies, but also organizations, businesses, communities, and technologies.
- sverona 5y ago
  What exactly is your criticism? Saying "more technology will solve it!" is not really the point of solarpunk. Most of the solarpunks I know, including myself, are also broadly described as anarchists. "A shift in how you view the world" is something that happened to us long ago.
  - hosh 5y ago
    I was talking about a shift from a Machine Worldview to that of a Living Systems Worldview. You can be an anarchist with or without that kind of a shift. Perhaps you could share your views of solarpunk. Maybe I don’t really understand it and I just see it as slapping a bunch of solar panels on houses.
    - pkdpic 5y ago
      I kind of dig the visual of solarpunk just being a bunch of millennials slapping solar panels on houses and Ive shared some version of the same concern I think. In any case sorry to tag along on the thread but Im a dev and visual artist trying to find some way to get more involved with part of the solarpunk community. Binge-reading Kim Stanley Robinson right now but totally isolated. Anybody have a discord or irc suggestion or anything?
    - ahevia 5y ago
      A decent video on the topic: https://youtu.be/u3aauiR9M88 https://youtu.be/u3aauiR9M88 Just to add my +1. I have also never seen Solarpunk as a "just slap solar panels on houses" but rather using the minimum possible technology to enhance what nature has to offer and live alongside it. Kind of like mixing the practices indigenous peoples with minimalist tech. The Cuba example you used is nice. After my family fled Cuba they worked hard to ensure our household kept many of the same cultural practices. That partially informs my view of Solarpunk as well.
    - sverona 5y ago
      So there's a climate apocalypse coming. I spent a while being blackpilled on it until I tried to hurt myself because of the stress that put on me mentally. I view solarpunk as being the things that you mentioned (some of which I wasn't aware of, thanks!) plus a general attitude of "yes, things are very bad, and they're gonna get worse, but we'll work now so we can live later, we'll meet the challenge in some way, we'll fight capitalism and kyriarchy, we'll build community, we'll build resilient structures, we'll live." Are these foolish hopes? They might be. But I'd rather hope foolishly than be a collapsenik who truly believes there is nothing left to live for.
mym1990 5y ago
I think you meant to say "Maybe I'm a bit Humboldt right now" ;) couldn't pass up the chance.

artpi 5y ago

Hey, OP here. The problem won't solve itself and we have to be wary of greenwashing. But as John Carmack says, we need tales to inspire, not tales to condemn. If we set our goals as just mediating damage, that's what we'll do. Only by having more ambitious goals, we will find out what's possible. Yes, we have work to do.

dougmwne 5y ago
Per aspera ad astra.

hosh 5y ago

I have been disappointed with Solarpunk as a movement, aestheric, and literary genre. Have you looked into the groups like permaculture, regenerative agriculture, Stamet’s work with mycology, Dr John Todd’s work on ecovats ? The earthship designs? What about the practices Cuba had to adopt when they were under embargo, and could no longer import oil or synthetic fertilizer? There are a lot of things we can do. There are already solutions that work. People are doing them. They require a shift in how you view the world. By comparison, solar panels and wind turbines are simplistic solutions that do not adequately address these problems. I am coming to the conclusion that more technology will not solve these problems because the world view and paradigm that spawned these technologies are what lead us here. That rather than viewing the world as if it were mechanisms that can be reduced to isolated, cause-and-effects, and solutions that come from acting upon things in the system through the application of some kind of force, one can see the world as a living system, that is capable of growth of regeneration. This not only includes ecologies and our individual bodies, but also organizations, businesses, communities, and technologies.

sverona 5y ago
What exactly is your criticism? Saying "more technology will solve it!" is not really the point of solarpunk. Most of the solarpunks I know, including myself, are also broadly described as anarchists. "A shift in how you view the world" is something that happened to us long ago.
- hosh 5y ago
  I was talking about a shift from a Machine Worldview to that of a Living Systems Worldview. You can be an anarchist with or without that kind of a shift. Perhaps you could share your views of solarpunk. Maybe I don’t really understand it and I just see it as slapping a bunch of solar panels on houses.
  - pkdpic 5y ago
    I kind of dig the visual of solarpunk just being a bunch of millennials slapping solar panels on houses and Ive shared some version of the same concern I think. In any case sorry to tag along on the thread but Im a dev and visual artist trying to find some way to get more involved with part of the solarpunk community. Binge-reading Kim Stanley Robinson right now but totally isolated. Anybody have a discord or irc suggestion or anything?
  - ahevia 5y ago
    A decent video on the topic: https://youtu.be/u3aauiR9M88 https://youtu.be/u3aauiR9M88 Just to add my +1. I have also never seen Solarpunk as a "just slap solar panels on houses" but rather using the minimum possible technology to enhance what nature has to offer and live alongside it. Kind of like mixing the practices indigenous peoples with minimalist tech. The Cuba example you used is nice. After my family fled Cuba they worked hard to ensure our household kept many of the same cultural practices. That partially informs my view of Solarpunk as well.
  - sverona 5y ago
    So there's a climate apocalypse coming. I spent a while being blackpilled on it until I tried to hurt myself because of the stress that put on me mentally. I view solarpunk as being the things that you mentioned (some of which I wasn't aware of, thanks!) plus a general attitude of "yes, things are very bad, and they're gonna get worse, but we'll work now so we can live later, we'll meet the challenge in some way, we'll fight capitalism and kyriarchy, we'll build community, we'll build resilient structures, we'll live." Are these foolish hopes? They might be. But I'd rather hope foolishly than be a collapsenik who truly believes there is nothing left to live for.

mym1990 5y ago

I think you meant to say "Maybe I'm a bit Humboldt right now" ;) couldn't pass up the chance.