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== How many of those Christians are promoters of human-rights violations?== Any of the ones who put money in a collection plate to help fund the church. Those

== How many of those Christians are promoters of human-rights violations?== Any of the ones who put money in a collection plate to help fund the church. Those funds helped pay to cover up human rights abuses. Catholics still support the Vatican, where the leaders live and who were the ones sweeping things under the rug. == Now tell me how many people still support Communist/Socialist revolutions, even after seeing all this historical bloodbaths that they brought.== Talk about moving the goalposts. People still praise early Americans for their Revolution. How many did that kill? How many native Americans were slaughtered by the people we lionize? You know communism and socialism are not the same thing even if you write them next to each other, right? Not to mention that all 1.2 billion Catholics follow the same religion, leadership, and structure. Politics don’t cross the same number of borders. This game can be played all day. Which is likely what you want because it changes the subject off of religion.

rglullis 5y ago
Interesting. You want to assign all blame to the followers of the things you disagree with, but you want to find an excuse to the supporters of the things you agree with. > Those funds helped pay to cover up human rights abuses. Possibly true. But the people donating money were not doing it with the intent of "let's help the child molesters go unpunished". On the other hand, I've heard/read from far too many socialists that they fully support Che's actions, or that "those bastards deserved to die."
- long_time_gone 5y ago
  == but you want to find an excuse to the supporters of the things you agree with.== We should be aware of our mind’s ability to play this trick. Have you analyzed if you might be falling into this trap? Who is it that I agree with, exactly? I don’t remember stating. It seems you have filled in your own details of who I am and what I believe with a nice straw man that you can attack. Ironically, I’m struggling to think of a historical figure that was more socialist than Jesus. == or that "those bastards deserved to die."== And I’ve heard from plenty of “Christians” that the Crusades were justified, slavery wasn’t that bad, immigrants are rats, Manifest Destiny justifies Native American slaughter, and on and on.
  - rglullis 5y ago
    The absurd things that you have heard Christians say are not supported by their leadership. In contrast, there are barbaric actions done by the so-called "heroes" that are defended and even praised by many self-professed socialists. Don't you see a difference at all?
    - dragonwriter 5y ago
      > The absurd things that you have heard Christians say are not supported by their leadership. The absurd things that I have heard Christians say (as a Christian myself) have been disproportionately directly from leaders in the Christian community (particularly, but not exclusively, the elites of the American Christian Right, some of whom are also significant figures in one of the remaining heirarchical churches in America.) That includes the examples specifically cited by the poster upthread. (There are, of course, other Christian leaders that disagree.)
      - rglullis 5y ago
        By "leadership", I meant those that founded and shaped the religion. IOW, the ones that led by example and showing skin in the game. The "leaders" you are referring to are anything but.
    - long_time_gone 5y ago
      This all depends on what you define as “leadership”. I have absolutely heard prominent pastors (local religious leaders) make those claims and I suspect anyone being honest with themselves has too. When you say leadership are you referring to the leadership who abused small children (local level) or the leadership who covered it up (national/global level)? The constant “whataboutism” towards socialism doesn’t answer any of those questions. Socialists aren’t a global society like Christians. They don’t have a universal set of instructions to run on (like the Bible). Giving money to a local “socialist” running for office doesn’t trickle up to a global socialist network like the church. You see the difference, no?
      - 5y ago

rglullis 5y ago

Interesting. You want to assign all blame to the followers of the things you disagree with, but you want to find an excuse to the supporters of the things you agree with. > Those funds helped pay to cover up human rights abuses. Possibly true. But the people donating money were not doing it with the intent of "let's help the child molesters go unpunished". On the other hand, I've heard/read from far too many socialists that they fully support Che's actions, or that "those bastards deserved to die."

long_time_gone 5y ago
== but you want to find an excuse to the supporters of the things you agree with.== We should be aware of our mind’s ability to play this trick. Have you analyzed if you might be falling into this trap? Who is it that I agree with, exactly? I don’t remember stating. It seems you have filled in your own details of who I am and what I believe with a nice straw man that you can attack. Ironically, I’m struggling to think of a historical figure that was more socialist than Jesus. == or that "those bastards deserved to die."== And I’ve heard from plenty of “Christians” that the Crusades were justified, slavery wasn’t that bad, immigrants are rats, Manifest Destiny justifies Native American slaughter, and on and on.
- rglullis 5y ago
  The absurd things that you have heard Christians say are not supported by their leadership. In contrast, there are barbaric actions done by the so-called "heroes" that are defended and even praised by many self-professed socialists. Don't you see a difference at all?
  - dragonwriter 5y ago
    > The absurd things that you have heard Christians say are not supported by their leadership. The absurd things that I have heard Christians say (as a Christian myself) have been disproportionately directly from leaders in the Christian community (particularly, but not exclusively, the elites of the American Christian Right, some of whom are also significant figures in one of the remaining heirarchical churches in America.) That includes the examples specifically cited by the poster upthread. (There are, of course, other Christian leaders that disagree.)
    - rglullis 5y ago
      By "leadership", I meant those that founded and shaped the religion. IOW, the ones that led by example and showing skin in the game. The "leaders" you are referring to are anything but.
  - long_time_gone 5y ago
    This all depends on what you define as “leadership”. I have absolutely heard prominent pastors (local religious leaders) make those claims and I suspect anyone being honest with themselves has too. When you say leadership are you referring to the leadership who abused small children (local level) or the leadership who covered it up (national/global level)? The constant “whataboutism” towards socialism doesn’t answer any of those questions. Socialists aren’t a global society like Christians. They don’t have a universal set of instructions to run on (like the Bible). Giving money to a local “socialist” running for office doesn’t trickle up to a global socialist network like the church. You see the difference, no?
    - 5y ago