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There are a lot of comments saying not to quit until you've got a signed contract. In my career, in the US, I've had 10 jobs. All but one of them were "at-will"

by yosito 5y ago

There are a lot of comments saying not to quit until you've got a signed contract. In my career, in the US, I've had 10 jobs. All but one of them were "at-will" contracts that didn't require the employer giving any notice or reason to end the relationship. In fact, one did so on the first day. So I'm not sure that a signed contract is a guarantee of anything these days, at least in the US.

jakelazaroff 5y ago
It’s not a guarantee (although what in life is?), but it’s definitely safer than resigning based on a pending offer contingent on your now-previous manager’s reference. The US really needs stronger labor protections.
jeromegv 5y ago
Well it's just the bare minimum. Imagine quitting before you even got a contract. Doesn't mean it's full proof, but it's a good start.
MattGaiser 5y ago
The only defense is the ability to always get another job quickly. And if you need to have that capability anyway...
danaris 5y ago
And that's assuming you even get a formal contract. I don't have one. Never have, and neither has my wife. When you're not explicitly working as a contractor, it's quite common in the US to have no explicit contract of employment. You're hired, you're on the payroll, you have a job description, but the only things governing your relationship with your employer are the policies of whoever hired you and whatever laws are relevant to where you and they are.
MrWiffles 5y ago
The other thing to bear in mind is that a signed contract doesn’t mean shit unless you’ve got the money for attorney’s fees to enforce it. And having just been screwed out of both jobs like this poor person was, that’s a pipe dream. Yeah some people have good savings and interments that could draw on, but a whole lot of us in the US don’t, even with the salaries in our industry. Either they’re early in their career or have been through massive hardship, sometimes several such hardships (like me). And in most jobs people aren’t paid well enough relative to costs of living to be able to break that paycheck to paycheck cycle, so you’re totally out of luck because unless it’s a case with clear proven malicious intent way beyond the bounds of even the most red of red state loopholes for the rich and other corporate entities, they’ll just give you a right to sue declaration or something and leave you to fend for yourself. Speaking from experience here. And no, contrary to popular belief, attorneys don’t always take good cases on contingency, especially one that could drag on a while. Why wait 2-12 years for a fat payday, no matter how sure a thing?

by yosito 5y ago

jakelazaroff 5y ago

It’s not a guarantee (although what in life is?), but it’s definitely safer than resigning based on a pending offer contingent on your now-previous manager’s reference. The US really needs stronger labor protections.

jeromegv 5y ago

Well it's just the bare minimum. Imagine quitting before you even got a contract. Doesn't mean it's full proof, but it's a good start.

MattGaiser 5y ago

The only defense is the ability to always get another job quickly. And if you need to have that capability anyway...

danaris 5y ago

And that's assuming you even get a formal contract. I don't have one. Never have, and neither has my wife. When you're not explicitly working as a contractor, it's quite common in the US to have no explicit contract of employment. You're hired, you're on the payroll, you have a job description, but the only things governing your relationship with your employer are the policies of whoever hired you and whatever laws are relevant to where you and they are.

MrWiffles 5y ago

The other thing to bear in mind is that a signed contract doesn’t mean shit unless you’ve got the money for attorney’s fees to enforce it. And having just been screwed out of both jobs like this poor person was, that’s a pipe dream. Yeah some people have good savings and interments that could draw on, but a whole lot of us in the US don’t, even with the salaries in our industry. Either they’re early in their career or have been through massive hardship, sometimes several such hardships (like me). And in most jobs people aren’t paid well enough relative to costs of living to be able to break that paycheck to paycheck cycle, so you’re totally out of luck because unless it’s a case with clear proven malicious intent way beyond the bounds of even the most red of red state loopholes for the rich and other corporate entities, they’ll just give you a right to sue declaration or something and leave you to fend for yourself. Speaking from experience here. And no, contrary to popular belief, attorneys don’t always take good cases on contingency, especially one that could drag on a while. Why wait 2-12 years for a fat payday, no matter how sure a thing?