6 ms·

It's called spectrum for a reason: not all forms are disadvantageous. You just incorrectly believe it has only one form that Hollywood likes to show.

djyaz1200 5y ago
"not all forms are disadvantageous" <- this! Some of the most talented and happy people I've ever worked with were "on the spectrum". Our society has a reflex to make everything different a disease instead of acknowledging and celebrating our differences.
- mywittyname 5y ago
  Not having the ability to properly interact or socialize with people is a pretty significant handicap, IMHO. Sure, a person with ASD and a high intelligence can eventually find a place in society. It's the people with average intelligence and ASD that suffer.
  - djyaz1200 5y ago
    I see your point. It's likely I'm only seeing the people who thrive. The problem is whose definition of "properly interact" are we going with? In my experience people on the spectrum tend towards extreme honesty. What they often aren't good at is understanding all the lies, half truths and hints that are part of socializing... in part to protect the brittle egos most of the rest of us have.
    - mywittyname 5y ago
      Social awkwardness is a component of ASD, and can be a huge burden for people with it. It really doesn't matter whose definition we go with for what constitutes "proper interactions." Clinically speaking, ASD can cause people to have a difficult time with verbal communication in general, and reading cues of people. This goes far beyond just being too honest. The inability to make friends due to the behavioral issues that arise from living with ASD is torturous. It's probably why ASD is also linked with depression. If I weren't intelligent enough to work a technical job where people don't need to interact me, I probably wouldn't be around today.
      - djyaz1200 5y ago
        Well I am glad you are around :)
      - GoblinSlayer 5y ago
        First you say that lack of friends is torturous, then you say lack of friends saved you. Which is it? High intelligence is actually a handicap for friendship, and average intelligence is advantageous for friendship.
        mywittyname 5y ago
        I think you're misunderstanding my statements. I said that being intelligent enough to work a job where I don't need to work with people saved me. Unfortunately, I can a/b test with my sibling to see how my life could have gone. :(
        GoblinSlayer 5y ago
        I understood it as not working with people (lack of friends) is torturous.
  - GoblinSlayer 5y ago
    Do you mean socialization as an end goal? Autists don't have it as an end goal. A wolf doesn't suffer if it can't fly, the problem is simply not on the table in the first place.
  - GoblinSlayer 5y ago
    Conversely don't neurotypicals have problem finding a place in this world and dealing with brute facts like materialism, physicalism, determinism and reality of death? How do they deal with living in an asocial indifferent mindless chunk of matter which is this universe?
KingMachiavelli 5y ago
That is quite a strong claim. Certainly we can see examples where ASD was/is not a disadvantage but can we generalize that to saying certain levels/locations on the spectrum are never disadvantageous? Can we say that a particular type/kind/severity is not disadvantageous on average? But what if it has a higher variance in life/social outcomes (some people are considerably worse off but others are considerably better off compared to a non-ASD population). Its quite complicated because if a condition is not debilitating then it is also less likely to be diagnosed which means they would be underrepresented in studies. The big issue is that when you make statistical bets the medical POV is to aim for average, healthy, normative. Is it better to have a gene that has a 10% chance of increasing IQ but a 20% chance of having some mental disorder? It isn't fair to show examples of people that got 'both' without considering the people that only got the mental disorder. Also, to be fair, it is a trope of any Hollywood serial TV show (House, CSI, etc.) that at least one episode depicts an ASD individual for whom it is either not a disadvantage or benefits them, etc. I wouldn't say these depictions are any closer to a real or respectful representation, However, I would say that there is just as much over-glamorizing of mental health conditions in the current year as there is stigmatizing which is detrimental to everyone.

djyaz1200 5y ago

"not all forms are disadvantageous" <- this! Some of the most talented and happy people I've ever worked with were "on the spectrum". Our society has a reflex to make everything different a disease instead of acknowledging and celebrating our differences.

mywittyname 5y ago
Not having the ability to properly interact or socialize with people is a pretty significant handicap, IMHO. Sure, a person with ASD and a high intelligence can eventually find a place in society. It's the people with average intelligence and ASD that suffer.
- djyaz1200 5y ago
  I see your point. It's likely I'm only seeing the people who thrive. The problem is whose definition of "properly interact" are we going with? In my experience people on the spectrum tend towards extreme honesty. What they often aren't good at is understanding all the lies, half truths and hints that are part of socializing... in part to protect the brittle egos most of the rest of us have.
  - mywittyname 5y ago
    Social awkwardness is a component of ASD, and can be a huge burden for people with it. It really doesn't matter whose definition we go with for what constitutes "proper interactions." Clinically speaking, ASD can cause people to have a difficult time with verbal communication in general, and reading cues of people. This goes far beyond just being too honest. The inability to make friends due to the behavioral issues that arise from living with ASD is torturous. It's probably why ASD is also linked with depression. If I weren't intelligent enough to work a technical job where people don't need to interact me, I probably wouldn't be around today.
    - djyaz1200 5y ago
      Well I am glad you are around :)
    - GoblinSlayer 5y ago
      First you say that lack of friends is torturous, then you say lack of friends saved you. Which is it? High intelligence is actually a handicap for friendship, and average intelligence is advantageous for friendship.
      - mywittyname 5y ago
        I think you're misunderstanding my statements. I said that being intelligent enough to work a job where I don't need to work with people saved me. Unfortunately, I can a/b test with my sibling to see how my life could have gone. :(
        GoblinSlayer 5y ago
        I understood it as not working with people (lack of friends) is torturous.
- GoblinSlayer 5y ago
  Do you mean socialization as an end goal? Autists don't have it as an end goal. A wolf doesn't suffer if it can't fly, the problem is simply not on the table in the first place.
- GoblinSlayer 5y ago
  Conversely don't neurotypicals have problem finding a place in this world and dealing with brute facts like materialism, physicalism, determinism and reality of death? How do they deal with living in an asocial indifferent mindless chunk of matter which is this universe?

KingMachiavelli 5y ago

That is quite a strong claim. Certainly we can see examples where ASD was/is not a disadvantage but can we generalize that to saying certain levels/locations on the spectrum are never disadvantageous? Can we say that a particular type/kind/severity is not disadvantageous on average? But what if it has a higher variance in life/social outcomes (some people are considerably worse off but others are considerably better off compared to a non-ASD population). Its quite complicated because if a condition is not debilitating then it is also less likely to be diagnosed which means they would be underrepresented in studies. The big issue is that when you make statistical bets the medical POV is to aim for average, healthy, normative. Is it better to have a gene that has a 10% chance of increasing IQ but a 20% chance of having some mental disorder? It isn't fair to show examples of people that got 'both' without considering the people that only got the mental disorder. Also, to be fair, it is a trope of any Hollywood serial TV show (House, CSI, etc.) that at least one episode depicts an ASD individual for whom it is either not a disadvantage or benefits them, etc. I wouldn't say these depictions are any closer to a real or respectful representation, However, I would say that there is just as much over-glamorizing of mental health conditions in the current year as there is stigmatizing which is detrimental to everyone.