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Since you tend to go there only when dealing with foreclosed homes, perhaps you aren't seeing some of the nicer places? I have plenty of friends who live in Det

Since you tend to go there only when dealing with foreclosed homes, perhaps you aren't seeing some of the nicer places? I have plenty of friends who live in Detroit and love it. I used to live there myself and loved it. Yes, there is ruin porn a-plenty, and many nasty areas. But there are also neighborhoods where you can live for really cheap and be part of a great, caring community. Of course, I'm sure my thoughts on the matter in no way reflect the majority's opinion. I've lived in Toronto for 4 years now, and not a day goes by without me pining to go back to Detroit.

winestock 15y ago
Dibble's First Law of Sociology: Some do; some don't. Accentuating the positive is cold comfort. Tenth-century Rome hosted the development of Gregorian chant and papal charters for the first universities. Focusing on those positive developments doesn't change the fact that Rome was a step or two above a cow town compared to contemporary Constantinople or, better yet, first-century Rome. Of course Detroit has nice places and nice people. I saw examples of that and my brothers have seen more. The reason why so many people focus on the ruin porn is that Detroit has so much more of it than most cities of its size. Speaking of size, Detroit has lost more than half of its population in forty years. Satellite photos reveal that the city is steadily returning to wilderness. This happened to the premier heavy industrial city of what was supposed to be the wealthiest and most powerful nation on Earth. This is a flipping travesty! Similar decline happened to other American cities at the same time. Philadelphia. Saint Louis. Newark. The South Side of Chicago. Parts of San Francisco and Los Angeles. It nearly happened to the entirety of New York. Let's face it, these cities were more livable when they were run by ethnic machine politics staffed by people who squeaked through third-tier parochial colleges. What makes this ruin porn all the more infuriating -- and disturbing -- is that it started when the cool people with the right ideas from the Ivy League schools stepped in. This is what makes us really uncomfortable. We know that it's "incorrect" to say it. The urban renewal and racial integration policies that were ostensibly supposed to improve these cities have utterly and ignominiously failed.
- ikarous 15y ago
  "What makes this ruin porn all the more infuriating -- and disturbing -- is that it started when the cool people with the right ideas from the Ivy League schools stepped in." Post hoc, ergo proper hoc? I don't necessarily disagree with you, but don't you think that there might be more contributing factors? In particular, the decline of the American auto industry comes to mind in regards to Detroit.
  - winestock 15y ago
    The American automobile industry didn't really get hit by imports until the Oil Shocks of the 1970s. By then, the productive population of Detroit was already fleeing to the suburbs. Also, if the decline of the American automobile industry explains the decline of Detroit, then the suburbs of Detroit would have declined as well, instead of expanding. Furthermore, the decline of the American automobile industry does not explain why similar declines occurred in the other cities which I mentioned.
    - tptacek 15y ago
      The suburbs of Detroit are also in decline. For how many years now has Michigan been in the bottom quartile for unemployment? The fact that Twelve Oaks Mall is nice and has an Apple Store doesn't mean that that the Detroit Suburbs are proof of a functioning greater Detroit metro economy.
      - winestock 15y ago
        "Decline" means different things when applied to Detroit and to its suburbs. The suburbs are much safer and have much better infrastructure, among many other things. Higher up in this thread, I referenced the book The Slaughter of Cities, by E. Michael Jones. That is the book around which my views have gelled.
        quick_look 15y ago
        FYI, being better off than one's neighbor doesn't make one not poor.
pyre 15y ago
As a counter point, I left Detroit in 2005 and I've lived in Toronto and Portland. Not a day goes by that I wish I were still living in Detroit or its suburbs. Metro Detroit has a lack of good public transit. Everything is spread out, making biking annoying to impossible. I don't even think that the drivers would know what to do if they saw a bike on the road other than: 1) attempt to run down the rider or 2) swerve wildly into other lanes of traffic.

winestock 15y ago

Dibble's First Law of Sociology: Some do; some don't. Accentuating the positive is cold comfort. Tenth-century Rome hosted the development of Gregorian chant and papal charters for the first universities. Focusing on those positive developments doesn't change the fact that Rome was a step or two above a cow town compared to contemporary Constantinople or, better yet, first-century Rome. Of course Detroit has nice places and nice people. I saw examples of that and my brothers have seen more. The reason why so many people focus on the ruin porn is that Detroit has so much more of it than most cities of its size. Speaking of size, Detroit has lost more than half of its population in forty years. Satellite photos reveal that the city is steadily returning to wilderness. This happened to the premier heavy industrial city of what was supposed to be the wealthiest and most powerful nation on Earth. This is a flipping travesty! Similar decline happened to other American cities at the same time. Philadelphia. Saint Louis. Newark. The South Side of Chicago. Parts of San Francisco and Los Angeles. It nearly happened to the entirety of New York. Let's face it, these cities were more livable when they were run by ethnic machine politics staffed by people who squeaked through third-tier parochial colleges. What makes this ruin porn all the more infuriating -- and disturbing -- is that it started when the cool people with the right ideas from the Ivy League schools stepped in. This is what makes us really uncomfortable. We know that it's "incorrect" to say it. The urban renewal and racial integration policies that were ostensibly supposed to improve these cities have utterly and ignominiously failed.

ikarous 15y ago
"What makes this ruin porn all the more infuriating -- and disturbing -- is that it started when the cool people with the right ideas from the Ivy League schools stepped in." Post hoc, ergo proper hoc? I don't necessarily disagree with you, but don't you think that there might be more contributing factors? In particular, the decline of the American auto industry comes to mind in regards to Detroit.
- winestock 15y ago
  The American automobile industry didn't really get hit by imports until the Oil Shocks of the 1970s. By then, the productive population of Detroit was already fleeing to the suburbs. Also, if the decline of the American automobile industry explains the decline of Detroit, then the suburbs of Detroit would have declined as well, instead of expanding. Furthermore, the decline of the American automobile industry does not explain why similar declines occurred in the other cities which I mentioned.
  - tptacek 15y ago
    The suburbs of Detroit are also in decline. For how many years now has Michigan been in the bottom quartile for unemployment? The fact that Twelve Oaks Mall is nice and has an Apple Store doesn't mean that that the Detroit Suburbs are proof of a functioning greater Detroit metro economy.
    - winestock 15y ago
      "Decline" means different things when applied to Detroit and to its suburbs. The suburbs are much safer and have much better infrastructure, among many other things. Higher up in this thread, I referenced the book The Slaughter of Cities, by E. Michael Jones. That is the book around which my views have gelled.
      - quick_look 15y ago
        FYI, being better off than one's neighbor doesn't make one not poor.

pyre 15y ago

As a counter point, I left Detroit in 2005 and I've lived in Toronto and Portland. Not a day goes by that I wish I were still living in Detroit or its suburbs. Metro Detroit has a lack of good public transit. Everything is spread out, making biking annoying to impossible. I don't even think that the drivers would know what to do if they saw a bike on the road other than: 1) attempt to run down the rider or 2) swerve wildly into other lanes of traffic.